Main Discussion Area > English Warbow
MR replica (pics)
ChrisD:
--- Quote from: kviljo on August 20, 2009, 06:36:39 am ---Of course, denser woods give a lot thinner bows. I think I mentioned it, but I've got another norwegian yew longbow which is a lot smaller and still 40 punds heavier than this one. I once handeled a Stratton 120# flightbow, which looked like a 60# bow. It was really heavy in weight though. Yew usually gives a larger bow for a given weight than other woods. Ipe for example... :)
A nice experiment would be to make two replicas of the smalles MR-bow, one from dense yew and one from less dense yew. If nothing else, it would give an interesting new set of data for the interpretation of the MR draw weights. As it is now, we only seem to have the upper limit setteled to be from 200 to 120#. - so there's really no good evidence to back up any statement on what the lower range of draw weights was like.
The more you twist a string, the more stress you put on each fiber, which results in more elastisity with the stronger stuff and more risk with e.g. linnen. So I usually twist them no more than necessary for them to hold together while also making sure the cross section stays reasonably round. This is a 3x5 ply ff+ string. That one is overly safe :) The less you twist the less strands you can get away with, so with flightbows I twist them even less.
And just as a general comment: When it comes to constructive comments and spots on the tiller... ::) ...a picture is really not enough to give detailed advice. To do that you need an overview of things like local density of the wood, knots, amount of sapwood/heartwood, the shape of the cross section, the shape of the natural growth and most basicly - the width of each section of the bow. What pictures are good for are considering the gereral shape of the tiller compared to the width-profile of the bow, and of course for considering symmetry.
--- End quote ---
I nicely made bow and an interesting discussion. I entirely agree with your sentiments on how to go about assessing facsimiles of bows and I have argued for this in many environments. If you could get enough large billets of wood from the same two sources - one of the densest wood and one of the least dense, than you could make replicas of the smallest and largest MR bow from each. I'd like to see how closely (or not) the big bow from least dense wood matches with the small bow of most dense. We can already guess how the opposite would work out.
C
Kviljo:
Ahh, you're on to something there! It would be a great experiment. If the two bows came out with about the same weight, it could add credibility to the hypothesis that the outer dimensions of the originals reflect the density of the wood more than the draw weight.
bow-toxo:
Jaro—The beginning of the medieval period is the fall of Rome whenever you date that. .As the Nydam bows are such close relatives of the MR ones, and are very close to the time the Saxons brought their longbows to England, I think they are worth considering and comparing.
Davepim--- A singlelooped string as used in the Middle Ages with self sidenocks is ideal for speed in preparing to shoot, and for taking down, with the pressure of the thumbtip pressing the V of the loop to the nock. Very little effort. They were cut in opposite sids on the MR bows, most of the Nydam bows, the Viking bows, and the Alemannic bows. With horn nocks, round because of standardisation and because that is the only shape that can be easily made to fit a bowtip, the loop, again standardised, must fit closely in order to be secure. I can understand why Victorian nocks came to be.
Rod---I don’t respond to every post with enthusiasm. Only those few that impress me.
I agree with you that the ff two strand peg board string is a disappointment and I see no excuse for one on an otherwise flawless replica bow of that low draw weight. On the horn nocks, flush wouldn’t be an authentic reproduction. Medieval guild craftsmen were discouraged from innovations which was considered unfair advantage.
Kviljo—I am really astonished that your yew bow of true NR dimensions would have a low draw weight I hadn’t believed possible. Live and learn. Strings were tightly twisted in the belief that the tighter and harder the twist, the better it would cast the arrow. I stick with the tradition.
Cheers,
Erik
Yeomanbowman:
A note of caution about drawing too many conclusions about draw weight from even to seemingly identical density of wood bows. For example, if 2 staves were split from 1 bent log one would be reflexed the other deflexed. The reflexed stave bow would be heavier at the same dimensions. The way a bow is tillered also has an effect because if it is held too long on the tiller at various points it will increase set and reduce draw weight.
BTW I am certainly not saying this is what has happened with kviljo's bow.
I think far more than one or two bows is needed to give a faithful picture.
Jaro:
"Jaro—The beginning of the medieval period is the fall of Rome whenever you date that. .As the Nydam bows are such close relatives of the MR ones, and are very close to the time the Saxons brought their longbows to England, I think they are worth considering and comparing."
"The beginning of the medieval period is the fall of Rome whenever you date that." - That would only bear relevance if the "medieval period" was homogenous body with similar level of technology and sociopolitical clima all through it, which is not. It is for good reason why era from fall of Rome till some 10. century is called "dark ages" - and it is not until end of it when modern feudalism developped from originall chieftan democracies and spread universaly through evrope. It is pretty nice bad comparition fallacy to assume that my argument is irrelevant since the date in question is so close to "medieval". Frankly if I was interested in this type of debate, I would respond that MR bows arent "medieval", they are modern, since medieval age ends with the discovery of New world - a thing which you can read in each well meant yet badly written history book. I hope you catch my drift.
"As the Nydam bows are such close relatives of the MR ones, and are very close to the time the Saxons brought their longbows to England, I think they are worth considering and comparing."
1300 years of development of both the weapon and the armour and order of magnitude leap in metalurgy divides them, the only comparing of the Nydam bows and MR bows worth of doing is that of their qualities relatively to tactics and armour of the era they have been used in. And I would bet my shoes that again we will eventually get to very simple definition - that they were adequate to job they were designed to do, at the time they were.
Frankly, even technology on those two examples of bows is the same only as far as what is possible to make from small diameter yew tree with basic bowmaking principles in mind - since MR bows were manufactured in the clime best described as industrialised.
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