Author Topic: Little histlory behind the mass theory  (Read 5987 times)

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Offline DCM4

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2010, 10:39:03 AM »
It's all a matter of what measure of patience you work into a project George.  You know that.  Yes, a character stave takes longer to figure out but if you are slow and careful they can be made to bend as "perfectly" as any other.  I doubt we have any real differences, just in the way we describe things.  What works, works after all and there ain't no cheating that.  I never thought of it as difficulty per se, rather as a challenge.  I was also about process, not product, so a challenging project was just as much or more entertaining for me as an "easy" one.  I got no prollem with boards.  I made a butt load of backed board bows, boo backed mostly.  I'd not particularly enamored with red oak boards from the home center, or unbacked boards, but mostly because what boards I've used were just really horrible specimens, lacking density.  Also because, if yer gonna make a board bow and not leverage the benefit of a backing w/ glued in reflex, even cut from it's ownself, it seems like a real waste of the material's potential.  But yes, I concede an unbacked board bow does have it's own charm.  It's all good!

Offline Badger

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2010, 10:53:33 AM »
       I would be the first to admit that i don't always practice what I preach, more often than not I just grab a stave and whittle it into a bow. If I am making a special bow for some reason or have a hunting trip planned and want something special I go to greater length to get what I want. For me building a bow for a hunting trip, or trad gathering, or as a gift tends to give it a bit more meaning, I kind of like the ritual. Steve

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2010, 01:16:12 PM »
It must be my fluency in Greek that is preventing me from adequately communicating in English with my friend the irascible curmudgeon.  I never meant to say that you can't get a good tiller with a character stave. Did I say that? What I meant to say that it is hard for me to get that good tiller right away at first bracing so I have to remove wood and exercise the bow and partial draw to work it in. Anyway, it's all Greek to me. :) Jawge
New Hampshire

Offline artcher1

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2010, 01:40:36 PM »
You crack me up George  ;D! Good read guys, enjoying everyone's thoughts. Keep 'er going! ART

Offline DCM4

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2010, 01:45:07 PM »
Well I don't see how I have achieved that laudable title of irasible curmudgeon George.  I trust you are familiar with it's origin and connotation, by way of our mutual friends and acquaintances?  Wife asked me about Lennie recently in fact.  Anybody heard from him?

It is hard to get good tiller "right away," if that qualification puts our meanings more in line.  But not impossible and if achieved doesn't negate it's potential value.  Back to Steve's "practice what I preach," I'm not sure it's worth the investment in time or patience in some cases, I concede.

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2010, 02:16:41 PM »
LOL, DCM, I made it up in a loving kind of way. No, I don't know what happened to Lennie (tom sawyer). I do miss the old crowd on the LW. Mudd is back posting.  I see DRT a couple times a year at shoots. Keeps me laughing. He stayed with us last summer for a few days. We went to a local shoot (White Mountain Traditional Bowhunters). I even put in a new toilet  seat for him in the guest bathroom. I should have waited until after he left. Got my daughter here. We went shoeing and stumping. Just got in. Her husband is in the AF. They're off to Germany soon. Thank God for Skype. :) Jawge
New Hampshire

half eye

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2010, 06:45:56 AM »
Badger,
      Hope your not sick of explaining, would you mind answering one more question? I been following along this new thread with great interest so I thought I'd apply some reasoning of the reduction of the mass weight of a bow I made some time ago.
      The bow was a prymid shape pulling about 48# and is short 57 inches. I cut the limb width down 1/8" at the grip fades to 0 at the tips (all 4 sides) the bow shed 2 & 1/2 ounces in mass weight and only 1 pound (about) in draw weight....I realized that if I'd taken that much wood from the belly I'd probably lost about 1/2 my draw weight for the same amount of mass weight loss. (Width is 1 to 1 and thickness is 8 to 1) I was very impressed to say the least.
      Here is the question....I'm saying different than you but am I on the right wavelength for the principle that your explaining? If you are sick of explaining I completely understand....just thought I'd see if I was on the same sheet of music, is all.
half eye ;)

Offline Badger

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2010, 09:09:24 AM »
    Half, this is exactly what it is about, that was a perfect demonstration. Then if the bow isn't taking set you could take more if you wanted. For a 57" bow 2" doesn't sounf overbuilt though. Steve

Offline artcher1

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2010, 09:39:51 AM »
Steve, wouldn't what Half-eye described also give him the best tension/compression ratio for his limbs? Would not this be the best way to find or come closer to the correct t/c ratio for any limb? I mean someone can start out with limbs to wide or to thick and miss their mass weight can't they? I really have to get my book back that you sent me (it stays loaned out) and reread your chapter. 'Bout time I took that next step................ART

Offline Badger

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Re: Little histlory behind the mass theory
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2010, 09:43:12 AM »
Art,yes,  starting out larger and zeroing in on the proper demensins are far more accurate than the mass theory by itself. I use the mass theory to get close and fine tune using the othe rmethods often. Most bows we see are overbuilt in some areas and underbuilt in others, has a lot to do with how they tillerd the bow based on where the wood was. Steve