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Flatbows found on the Mary Rose?
markinengland:
Jaro,
The lecture I mention was given by Matthew Strickland and Robert Hardy, and they did confirm that not all the MT bows were yew (and it was more than one bow!). They both seem failry well informed about the MR finds. I've got no axe to gring one way or the other. If I remember correctly there are written references to the fact that some of the MR bows may not have been yew, and certainly references to none Yew warbows in use.
A bow of 100lbs plus is certainly possible with UK whitewoods now, and would have been then.
;D ;D ;D ;D No fight wanted or intended.
youngbowyer:
--- Quote from: bow-toxo on December 11, 2010, 06:52:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: youngbowyer on December 07, 2010, 11:05:35 pm ---Hi,
I was wondering if any flatbows were found on the Mary Rose and if there were could someone give me some dimensions.
(or any infortmation about the flatbows that the welsh used right before the "english" warbow came along. Because i cut some black locust today about 8 inches in diamter but it doesnt have enough heartwood for an english warbow design and i i like to keep my bows
looking as much as bows found on the Mary Rose and just plain English Warbows.
Thanks,Tom.
--- End quote ---
Some of the MR bows were of rectangular section, not really flatbows, and have been described as being longer than most of the bows. Where does your comment about Welsh flat bows come from ? It is news to me that there is any non-fiction information about them other than that they were made of “forest elm”. That wouldn’t include black locust.
Erik
--- End quote ---
Black locust is the only material i have availiable at the moment and as it is not good in compression i wwas wondering if any flatbows were found on the mary rose so i could kepp my bow to those dimesnions.
Jaro:
The problem is that the pool of information from "The warbow" is already slightly outdated. Hovewer, I can ask either Andy Eckerton, or Mark Stretton with whom I m in one archery group - but if there indeed was confirmed non-yew bow on Mary Rose this information would be "big" and public already while ago.
Mind, you even if it wont be oficially published, "we" would know. The research of wood on the bows has gone so far, that DNA test has been done and the kindred living speciemens of the yew tree, have been located in alpine valley (Not that far from Celestios place I m told). To find out whatever one bow is or is not yew is fairly simple test. The confusion might exist because at least 3 "grades" of yew exists, of which the best italian is the most numerous, then there are bows which seems to be of slightly different worksmanship and supposed to be reclaimed from armoury storage and also probably - a favorite hypothesis of Alan Edwards the "Black bow" is somebodys loved weapon brought fom home, which can be easy true, taking in consideration fact that it is coarse yew with abundant character and varnish which does have nothing to do with that of the rest. (Probably english yew)
Well, there is no point to act as if heavy longbow cannot be made out of whitewood, I m doing it for the last 8 years. I have now made ash longbow for Mark which is 140# - and I actually had problems to get the weight down from over 160# which it had at first brace on tiler. I make 125# white wood bows routinely. But what is worth of considering, that whitewood bow is not something you would want to bring into wet field conditions, much less ship. See, they just dont shoot. They loose as much as 1/3 of their performance once they get wet and there is nothing which prevents them to suck water. (Modern polyurethane plastic finish, but even that is not total)
Now, that doesnt matter, if you only have to shoot once in a week to fullfill the leter of the law and you ll keep the bow to dry hung over your fireplace. That doesnt work in trenches.
Yew on the other hand isnt affected by moisture.
Mark, I m not looking for a fight, but if anybody has to get good info, it is better to become EWBS associate member as nobody has better pool of knowledge now. I mean, we are arguing here pool of knowledge of 2003 or some.
Jaro
Jaro:
Erik, you cannot "keep the bow to MR dimensions" and make it flatbow.
Also MR dimensions and tapers wont likely work with anything else but yew - if you lay out width tapers for other wood, youll get flatter bow, all else being equall.
What you can do is make the crossection as I m suggesting and make whole profile flattish, perhaps as much as 2:1 width:depth ratio.
Howewer lots of people makes it completelly square as to think that if the belly is flat, it will resist compression better, but that isnt true on deep profiled bow as the edges are strained more than the mid of the profile. Ergo it pays of to moderatelly round everything. What has by far bigger influence on belly holding up is the distance of belly from neutrall plane and that can be manipulated exactly by making the profile such as I m describing.
Jaro
markinengland:
Jaro,
It is a FACT that shortly after the publishing of "The Great Warbow" the authors of the book Matthew Strickland and Robert Hardy gave a lecture in London, that I attended and that when I questioned them they confirmed that not all the bows were yew, that a few were other woods. This was said in front of a large audience in 2005 presumably because it was true, true then, true now and true of the facts when the Mary Rose went down. That it was 5 years ago means nothing!
If we respect the authors of the book, their knowlege and honesty it is not entirely relevant whether a member of the EWBS is aware of this or not. I don't know if any current EWBS members were present at the lecture. I have no reason to make this up myself. You very obviously do not believe me - you feel that if this was true it would be widely known which means I am not well enough qualified to know this, or I must be oddly mistaken and stupid and have got my poor little brain confused, or I am not telling the truth and am making this up.
I'm not an EWBS member, but I was there, this happened and I am reporting it honestly and accurately.
Truth does not depend on how many people know it.
I understand that many if not all the MR bows were in the stewardship of Rober Hardy for quite some years prior to them going to the MR museum, so he had had quite a few years to study them at his leisure in his home by 2005. If he says that some were not yew, then he may just know what he is talking about? I also have been lead to understand that not all the MR bows are in the MR museum.
As I couldn't get Robert or Matthew to say any more about the non-yew bows I can't say for sure whether they were whitewood bows or possibly something more exotic.
I have never before heard of yew bows being immune to moisture and so much time and effort is put into seasoning yew by many bowyers. ;D
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