Main Discussion Area > English Warbow
What is "Warbow"
sagitarius boemoru:
Point by point
"but I'm mindful that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence"
- absence of evidence is evidence of absence in any sort of serious research.
"but his approach is very much that of a materials scientist and is worthy of serious consideration"
- well well, he also writes about tests he conducted with Steve Stratton in his new book. Ask Steve about it.
"On cost a bows price was held at between 1/2 a week and a weeks pay for an archer depending on the type of bow."
3s 4d = 40 s is indeed about weeks pay of an archer, but a 30 - 40 day pay for a craftsman. As obvious that the person must have been also living of something sparring money for new bow wont be a matter of week (Thinking about perhaps average archer being able to spare like 1s a week, if carefull. A craftsman living in england would probably have cheap bow for law enforced practice, but again definitelly not throw away item.
"We don't even know what kind of fletchings were used but you can bet they would have been aerodynamically efficient"
-WE have several depictions of tudor arrows on e.g. coat of arms of Arthur Tudor (Henry VII older brother), or on older painting by Rogier van der Weyden "man with an arrow (man in black turban) from 1480´which is best depiction of war arrow in heavy style ever drawn and known contemporary portrait of Henry tudor hodling big tudor arrrow."
Anyway there is specific way to cut a goose feather along greaseline which produces very distinctive, nearly, but only nearly triangular shape, which is the shape on all these sources. Where they differ is rear part as some are forktailed and some are not. On the other hand there is equilibrium between weight of an arrow and surface of fletching needed for reasonable flight. Heavy arrow with too little of fletch wont be going nearly as far as the "proper" one.
" I've spoken to people who reckon a yew self bow is can be 'shot out' after about 600 shots"
-Well that is incredibly sh---y bow then. I wouldnt care about bow like that. I m making them and I have seen good ones in alpine yew. They dont loose any much vigor after several thousand arrows. Its plain nonsense to anyone familiar with these. Original Hardy´s book is 30 years old. Research did progressed since then. We should understand what is with bow when its "shot in", which happens after few hundred arrows and when its "shot out" - means unusable. Just take a look at Aschams comentary about shooting in and customising bows in "Toxophilus".
"Mary Rose bows tend towards the 80inch mark"
- common misconception. I charted all the bows in MR trust electronic archive. Only few is 80´´ and more (like 12 percent) and few others (Only 9 bows from 139) is under 74´´. Majority is between 75-78´´. Such a bow fitted with 2´´ hornnocks on each end (lets say the groove will be 1´´ from edge of horn) and braced is how long? Go figure.
" I also know about discouragement of shooting at less than 220yds etc etc King Henry VIII blah blah blah. Well who said anybody practiced with war arrows? I don't - I shoot 230-240yds too - mostly to addle the brains of my club colleagues - but with lighter arrows."
If you happen to actually read my post youll notice there was ACT passed which prohibited shooting "flighting or prickling" arows at any distance shorter than..etc etc. As much as other ACT which enforced men over 24 years of age to shoot at marks over 220 yrds. This is not encouragement. Its LAW passed by tyrant who was known for choleric atacks of violence and execution orders right and left. A substantial penalty was to be paid in cash if you werent able to uphold these rules on regular enforced practice sessions.
Its not about heretism. The research of many people who make these bows and shoot them is head on contrary of what you say. Hence backing by some better arguments is needed.
Jaro
SimonUK:
--- Quote ---A craftsman living in england would probably have cheap bow for law enforced practice, but again definitelly not throw away item.
--- End quote ---
I wonder if some very poor people made the practice bows themselves out of a common wood such as ash? Or at least got a local carpenter to make one?
How to we know that the official price of a bow in the records isn't referring to a high quality bow for the army's use?
duffontap:
--- Quote from: ChrisD on May 24, 2007, 07:12:15 pm ---Re the linen strings - reading between the lines, it doesn't look like you've seen one either J.D. Of course we all hear about things such as Glennans 120lb bow with a broken string which might well have been linen and is the kind of happening I'm thinking of. I certainly won't be using a linen string on any replica bow of mine in a hurry and I shall be surprised if I see any anytime soon.
--- End quote ---
I really appreciate a lot of what Pip has to say, but you have to remember that his test of the 'string theory' consisted of shooting a 65# bow with a linen string for a few weeks and then guessing how long such a string would last on a 100# bow. That is not a rigorous, scientific methodology. Pip has been very helpful to me and I enjoy corresponding with him, too, but I don't think he did enough research before he published his string theory because people like Glennan and Jaro are shooting 100#+ bows with linen strings and finding them quite suitable. I have no reason to doubt that what either of them are saying is true--but I have not seen these bows and strings in person.
J. D. Duff
Justin Snyder:
--- Quote from: SimonUK on May 24, 2007, 07:49:02 pm ---Just to change the topic very slightly - does anyone know if there are warbows in Native American culture? If so, what were the draw weights?
Or are they one and the same as hunting bows?
--- End quote ---
Yes there were warbows in Native American Culture. The hunting bows were usually fairly light, while the warbows were usually a lot heavier. English warbows are considered to be the heaviest of all warbows. Many of the Native American Warbows were longbows. I'm not going to pass along the particulars about weight until I go back and read what they were again. ;) Justin
Coo-wah-chobee:
Hmmm............thats interessting Justin. I would be interested to know what tribes and where your information comes from, anthropologists, direct source material, etc. ;D........bob
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