Main Discussion Area > English Warbow
Meaning of 'Piked'
outcaste:
--- Quote from: bow-toxo on August 07, 2008, 05:39:46 pm ---
Englishmen [ and boys] were required to buy the bows and arrows to learn to shoot and for the cumpulsory practice required of able bodied Englishmen between the ages of 16 and 6o. These were not usually yew bows as yew was needed for the wars and ownership was restricted. Bowyers were required to make most bows of 'meane woods'. The crown issued yew warbows and arrows to those men recruited for combat operations. I mcommend you for reading Toxophilus. I suggest that you also refer to the many statutes of Henry VII concerning archery to get a more complete picture. Although many enjoyed the cumpulsory practice, recreational archery per se belongs to later periods. I hope you can get over your obsession with the idea of pampered dandies at the butts in Ascham's [and MR] time.
--- End quote ---
Hi,
From a more practical standpoint It seems that bows from meane woods such as Ash find it it difficult achieving weights much over 120/30lbs. If the bows from the MR average between 140/60lbs. It seems quite a jump from practice to warfare. What are your thoughts on this? Does it mean that Yew bows for war were lighter than are thought to have been used on the MR?
Alistair
bow-toxo:
--- Quote from: outcaste on August 09, 2008, 05:48:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: bow-toxo on August 07, 2008, 05:39:46 pm ---
the butts in Ascham's [and MR] time.
--- End quote ---
Hi,
From a more practical standpoint It seems that bows from meane woods such as Ash find it it difficult achieving weights much over 120/30lbs. If the bows from the MR average between 140/60lbs. It seems quite a jump from practice to warfare. What are your thoughts on this? Does it mean that Yew bows for war were lighter than are thought to have been used on the MR?
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I have wondered about that also. The practice was designed to cover all distances and conditions and to be able to hit a mark whether shooting level or at a 45 % angle as Mancini observed. In war, in a tight formation as they usually were, only the first rank would be able to shoot level, while the other ranks would have to shoot over the heads of those in front of them. As an archer shooting upward can draw about a 40 % stronger bow than when shooting level, he could use a stronger bow than he was used to. The sheaves of arrows had a smaller number of shorter arrows with the longer ones. The archer would be able to fully draw them if the long draw at a level mark was beyond his strength. I'm just guessing, but it seems to make sense.
Alistair
--- End quote ---
ratty:
--- Quote from: outcaste on August 09, 2008, 05:48:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: bow-toxo on August 07, 2008, 05:39:46 pm ---
Englishmen [ and boys] were required to buy the bows and arrows to learn to shoot and for the cumpulsory practice required of able bodied Englishmen between the ages of 16 and 6o. These were not usually yew bows as yew was needed for the wars and ownership was restricted. Bowyers were required to make most bows of 'meane woods'. The crown issued yew warbows and arrows to those men recruited for combat operations. I mcommend you for reading Toxophilus. I suggest that you also refer to the many statutes of Henry VII concerning archery to get a more complete picture. Although many enjoyed the cumpulsory practice, recreational archery per se belongs to later periods. I hope you can get over your obsession with the idea of pampered dandies at the butts in Ascham's [and MR] time.
--- End quote ---
Hi,
From a more practical standpoint It seems that bows from meane woods such as Ash find it it difficult achieving weights much over 120/30lbs. If the bows from the MR average between 140/60lbs. It seems quite a jump from practice to warfare. What are your thoughts on this? Does it mean that Yew bows for war were lighter than are thought to have been used on the MR?
Alistair
--- End quote ---
my guess is, self whitewood bows such as ash would have been made much flatter than yew to achieve high draw weights.
but elm seems to work well to high draw weights
Yeomanbowman:
--- Quote from: bow-toxo on August 10, 2008, 03:44:17 am --- As an archer shooting upward can draw about a 40 % stronger bow than when shooting level, he could use a stronger bow than he was used to.
--- End quote ---
Hello BT,
That's an interesting theory about why there were the different lengths of shaft found in a sheaf and one which I'd not come across before.
I'm curious how you arrived at the figure about an archer being 40% stronger if he/she draws at 45 degrees, or so, over flat shooting? Is it based on your empirical experience as I have found the opposite to be the case. I think this is due to the raising of the bow arm shortening the draw length or if the angle is made via a torso/leg bend the general unnaturalness of the position causing more difficulty. Having seen all of the UK's heavy shooters in the flesh I have noticed that many draw flat and then incline to 45 to shoot for distance. This is partly to aim but is also done whilst flight shooting. If and archer could only draw 100lbs flat I find it difficult to believe that all of a sudden 140lbs would be achievable if the bow was draw at an inclined angle. I regularly shoot a bows over 150lbs and can do this flat but there is no way I could shoot a bow well over 200lbs incline or not. What is you source for the 40% extra theory, please?
Cheers,
Jeremy
bow-toxo:
--- Quote from: Yeomanbowman on August 12, 2008, 07:31:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: bow-toxo on August 10, 2008, 03:44:17 am --- As an archer shooting upward can draw about a 40 % stronger bow than when shooting level, he could use a stronger bow than he was used to.
--- End quote ---
Hello BT,
What is you source for the 40% extra theory, please?
Cheers,
Jeremy
--- End quote ---
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My theory source is personal experience noted with a bow a little beyond my usual strength and the actions tested for poundage on gym equipment, after another shooter offered the same observation. A posting by another member claimed that it would be impossible for him to shoot level with his warbow without serious physical damage. Perhaps there is a majority one way or another and other members could offer their own experience.
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