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Heavy bow strings

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Kviljo:
I would say fastflight is way too slippery. At least for using timber-hitches on 50#+ bows. They slip like mad, and thus lowering the braceheight.

By the way, I'll have to make myself a two-ply FF string for my flightbow after reading this ;) That should reduce string-drag "a little" ;D

Yeomanbowman:
I use a bowline knot as I find a timber hitch 'creeps' or slips outright. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowline
I'll follow this tread with interest, as Mark's maths seems to add up.  I'll let somebody else try it first ;).  As a historical note, 'stretchy' silk was considered the best for flight shooting in Tudor times.  Whether this was due to a lighter strings being possible or the inherent stretch I could not say.  If a bow was set in a braced position and fitted with a bungee cord and then shot the elasticity would still propel the arrow.  Slightly fatuous, I know, but could the 'give' add something to the cast.  I know this flies in the face of contemporary received wisdom, and I dislike Dacron for heavy draw-weight bows as well.
Jeremy 

markinengland:
Jeremy,
I've posted this same basic thread on a flight bow forum frequented by many record holding archers. They disagree as much or more than we do on strings, the important or not of stretch etc! Some record breaking shots have been made with dacron strings!
The consensus of opinion is that what works works even if we argue about why, and that a lot of BS is talked and believed and should be tested. What works for one bow type may not work for another, that even on the same bow type it makes a difference what the draw weight is, what the tiller is and what the arrow is. It seems that for a given heavy warbow the string that works best for a heavy military arrow may not work as well as a lighter string with a lighter arrow (but then again it may!). The only way to tell for sure is to try it.
I used to use bowline knots. The only trouble is that they hold like anything and are very hard to undo. When I tie a bowyers knot now I make sure that the string is well waxed. It is of course important that the knot is tied correctly and that when you loop the tail back round you do it the right way. I loop the tail round some 5 or more time so it goes all the way round the loop and then make sure the tail is tucked back under to lay under the knot. Once bedded in this seems to weld itself into one and won't slip. Occassionally a knot will when first tied so I just undo it and tie it again, making sure that all is tighter and done properly and then it seems OK.
I think I owe you a pint by the way. If my slightly bleery memory is correct I knocked one out of your hand while waving my hands around while we chatted about this subject! I hope you had a good time at the Batsford field shoot. I chickened out!
Kviljo,
I have a little bamboo bow with a two strand string. The high note it make when plucked makes you wince but it hasn't broken! The bow is only 20 inches long, must pull something silly like 100lbs at 6 inches and the string kills your fingers but it shot an arrow 100 yards.
Mark

bobnewboy:
The strings chapter in the TBB was quite an eye opener to me, as it seems to have been many others.  Perhaps the large number of strands recommended by most bowyers I have met reflects the desire to have a lot of safety built into the string.  In the past couple of years (as long as I've been doing this stuff !) I've been fortunate to be able to ask Chris Boyton, Hilary Greenland, and Carol Edwards about this personally, and I have read the same recommendations in Pip Bickerstaffe's book too.  The same answer usually comes back - a 12 strand generic string for my usual draw weight bow - 50 - 60 lb at 28".  I have been trying a 9 strand B50 string, and it seems fine (but see loop reinforcement below), with 3 skeins of 3 strands, on both my primitive Stellmoor style ash bow, and on my other half's wonky ash bow.  I prefer 3 skeins because it seems to make a more rounded section string, compared to 2 skeins.  I am keeping a close eye on my other half's bow, because it has such tiny nocks that i couldn't put in many extra stands for the loops as I would like.  Even so, both strings have been good, with excellent cast, and seem durable enough so far.....

One more question about FF.  Seems that most people in this discussion are only talking about single ended flemish twist strings.  Any particular reason for this, apart from a greater brace height adjustability?  If a double looped flemish twist string is made from FF (and I have done them in B50), does the panel think that the twists themselves will actually provide a bow's nocks with a little shock absoption?  That is, will a double ended string afford the bow nocks a little extra protection from the ultimate shock of an FF string slamming home?

Also, when I make strings I tend to increase the number of plies at the loops by 50-100% by adding 9 inch strands of the string material waxed and twisted into the main cordage.  I thought that this was a default position, as taught to me by Chris Boyton and Carol Edwards.  Does everyone do this, especially with warbows, as surely the greater bearing area of the thicker loop would go a long way to improving reliability?

//Bob

markinengland:
Bob,
As far as anyone can tell the habit of using too many strands seems to have developed historically. Linen strings needed to be failry fat to be strong enough. Arrow nocks were cut to suit this and we became used to this. When Dacron came in at 35lbs per strand about the time fibreglass bows did 16 strands or so of dacron was overbuilt for a normal bow (about right for a 140lb bow) but it looked about the right size and fitted the nocks we were used to. Recurve bows need stronger strings to a straight bow anyway. Now that fasflight does 100lb per strand and 450 plus does 150lb per strand a string that looks the right size and fits the arrow knock is stupid overbuilt! A nine strand dacron string should be safe for a 75 lb bow.
You can still put extra strands in a smal loop on a small bow knock. This is a little more difficult on the other end if you have a bowyers knot.
I don't make double ended flemish strings because I can't get the length right! I could could, I would! As far as I know or have heard there is no real difference with a twisted in loop or knot re safety. The twists in the string itself rather than the loops give the little bit of stretch and shock safety. The bow string could have two bowyers knots and work fine.
Yes, I do beef up the ends of the bow string, with the loop and the knot. A really skinny string needs this I think to give increaed wear resistance as well as to avoid any cutting in.
Mark

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