Main Discussion Area > English Warbow
An Arrow that Changed History
bow-toxo:
--- Quote from: CraigMBeckett on May 13, 2011, 12:03:59 am ---To my knowledge (which of course is limited) the green/white livery for all welsh archers is a myth, If anyone has information to the contrary I would appreciate it if the information and its source were posted as a response here. The use of livery was to notify the observer who was lord of the mass of people. Far from being "Welsh Colours" I suggest that as the livery was chosen and payed for by the employing Lord the colours merely indicated that they were the Prince's men? Wales was responsible for raising his own contribution to any military venture, including equipping and maintaining the men raised.
Craig.
--- End quote ---
Craig; You may be right about the colours. They are the Welsh flag colours today, as a green and white background to the red dragon of Cadwallader. I’m not sure how they were chosen.
I don’t know that they were liveries before the Black Prince, the first Prince of Wales. Btw. My information is that Richard III’s green and white liveried Cheshure archers were recruited from Wales and even Ireland as well as Cheshire. It is now possible to look at a list of their names.
CraigMBeckett:
Erick,
--- Quote ---Craig; You may be right about the colours. They are the Welsh flag colours today, as a green and white background to the red dragon of Cadwallader. I’m not sure how they were chosen.
I don’t know that they were liveries before the Black Prince, the first Prince of Wales. Btw. My information is that Richard III’s green and white liveried Cheshure archers were recruited from Wales and even Ireland as well as Cheshire. It is now possible to look at a list of their names.
--- End quote ---
Richard III was a considerable time after both the pacification of Wales and the original Norman Conquest of Ireland, for generations both peoples had served English Monarchs, and given the known abilities of the Welsh and the statute imposed practice with the bow by the Irish (similar requirements to those imposed on the English) it is not surprising that people of ability were found there. I would suggest that by the time of Richard III the name "Chershire Archers" owed more to custom than to a statement of the origin of the members of the corps.
WRT the Welsh Flag, the green and white field comes from the Tudor colours while as you say the Red dragon is the dragon of Cadwalladr (No "e" before the final "r") king of Gywnedd during the 7th C. The flag was used by Henry Tudor at the Battle of Bosworth, or Bosworth Field if you prefer, where he defeated Richard III (and his multinational Cheshire Archers), and proclaimed himself Henry VII. The Flag was "carried in state to St Pauls, and later the Tudors included it in their Royal Arms.
Where can the names be found?
Craig.
bow-toxo:
Craig Sorry, I typed Richard III when I meant Richard II. The archers from Ireland were not necessarily Irish, but may have been English settlers who had an archery militia there. There is a recent group in England that researches military ancestors and I saw one posting with detailed information on Cheshire archers. I don’t recall the name of the group.
Erik
CraigMBeckett:
Erik,
Thanks for the answer will have to have another look around.
Craig.
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