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Evidence OTHER than MR Bows of 120+ bows?
WillS:
Or they had some sort of yardstick that has possibly been altered over the years. Who knows?!
I know that in one of the DVDs I've got, Mark Stretton can be quoted saying "in medieval times, bowshot was 240 yards" so if the big man believes it, I'm 'appy ;)
Although, if I were to quote (which I won't) the most recent email Pip Bickerstaffe wrote to me about a certain Mr. Stretton (again, I won't quote) the big man is not to be trusted.... ::)
Oooh, handbags at dawn anybody?
WillS:
--- Quote from: Heffalump on November 06, 2013, 12:07:55 pm ---Hey Wills......wonder what our mate "Bip Pickerstaffe" would say to this.....
EXTRACTED FROM L’ART D’ARCHERIE
EDITED BY HENRI GALLICE CIRCA.1515 (translated 1901 from an old French manuscript for limited circulation)
FOURTH CHAPTER.
OF BOW STRINGS
________________________________________
“In the second part of this book, which will treat of bow strings, you will be told of the number of ways in which strings should be made, and of what the best are made. Bow strings are made of raw green silk and of hemp. Strings made of silk are good for flight shooting for three reasons, as Sexmodus tells us. The first is, that silk is so strong that it lasts longer without breaking than any other material. The second is, that the string can be made as thin as may be desired. The third is, that when properly made the string is so springy that it propels the arrow further and with greater force than when made of any other material The silk should be naturally green, and not burnt by dyeing, for it is spun green by silkworms. The other material of which strings are made is hemp, and this is of two kinds, male and female. The male is thick and coarse, and consequently is worthless for bow strings. The female sort is good, but it must be carefully picked and very well chosen. A good string should be gummed and not glued. The loop should be as small as possible, and well stretched with a stone weight (etendue fort a bonnes pierres de fais). And if you wish to know if a string is good, untwist the middle of it, and if the three strands are separate and distinct, it is a good one, provided always that when the string is twisted up again, it is hard and firm, for the harder it is, the better it will be”.
This, from a document compiled 100 years after Agincourt, from a series of even earlier essays. On balance, I tend to afford more credence to this information regarding historical accuracy on the capabilities of "stringfellowes" than Mr.B's somewhat more recent conclusions! LoL
John ;)
--- End quote ---
That's very interesting stuff, thanks! I've not heard of this document. I don't suppose there's any mention of poundage, weight or bow dimensions is there? That would clear up a good few debates in one swoop.
llkinak:
--- Quote ---One bow that was discovered much, much earlier was Otzi's bow. Steve Stratton has made a few replicas of this bow using identical high altitude Alpine yew, to exacting dimensions and construction techniques (the bow was made inside out, with the sapwood forming the belly and the heartwood forming the back) and he said the bow came out at very similar weight to the MR bows.
--- End quote ---
Now, why would this be? I'm not a bowyer, but I recall reading that the heart and sapwood of yew have very different properties, hence their typical placement as belly and back of a bow respectively. Seems like switching those around would be a recipe for failure.
WillS:
Yep, it's very weird!
If you go onto Paleoplanet, in the Primitive Archery section there's a whole thread where Steve Stratton documents his making of the bow. He also includes an excellent Cat scan of the actual bow, where you can see the grain lines of the wood in a completely opposite layout to how a bow is usually built.
Here's the page where Steve states the bow should be around 150lbs
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/134396/t/202lb-yew-warbow.html#.UnqZMRtFCUk
And here's the cat scan image
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/14119/202lb-yew-warbow?page=12#.UnqZextFCUk
Atlatlista:
As is made clear in that thread, all serious archaeologists dealing with Otzi's bow agree that it is an unfinished bow blank. The idea that it is a backwards-made 202 pound warbow is really not at all in line with the evidence, and doesn't make sense considering what we know of the weights of other neolithic bows from the region, and similar bows cross-culturally in other contexts.
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