Main Discussion Area > English Warbow
Evidence OTHER than MR Bows of 120+ bows?
Del the cat:
--- Quote from: Heffalump on November 13, 2013, 08:59:07 am --- with suction-cup tipped arrows >:D
--- End quote ---
These points are rubbery!
Jorry good! I tell blacksmith!
Del
(Oppologies to the Chinese community :-[)
Atlatlista:
--- Quote from: Heffalump on November 13, 2013, 08:59:07 am ---"Ming and Qing accounts list draw weights from 36-96 pounds"! :o
36# for a warbow, seriously? ::)......I'll make a point of doing a bit of research on this when I'm back in Shanghai next Spring. I can only assume these would have been for indoor Winter practise with suction-cup tipped arrows to encourage the servants to move a bit faster! >:D
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I thought it was strange too, but it was quoted on ATARN from Selby's book on Chinese archery. He posted in the thread and didn't dispute the numbers, so I can only assume it wasn't a misquote, not having Selby's book myself. If anybody has better data, I'm always happy to hear it. I don't have an agenda for these things, I just want the facts.
llkinak:
--- Quote ---I think 36# is too light to even be legal for hunting in the states isn't it?
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Quite so, Will, at least for some states. For example, Alaska requires a minimum of 40 pounds for some animals like wolf, black tail deer, wolverine, caribou, etc, and minimum of 50 for others like moose, brown bear and other bigger critters. I'm not sure what other state regulations are. 36#s seems needlessly light to me as well, especially for warfare, but I have no doubt it could injure / kill unarmored humans.
Atlatlista:
--- Quote from: llkinak on November 13, 2013, 12:58:47 pm ---
--- Quote ---I think 36# is too light to even be legal for hunting in the states isn't it?
--- End quote ---
Quite so, Will, at least for some states. For example, Alaska requires a minimum of 40 pounds for some animals like wolf, black tail deer, wolverine, caribou, etc, and minimum of 50 for others like moose, brown bear and other bigger critters. I'm not sure what other state regulations are. 36#s seems needlessly light to me as well, especially for warfare, but I have no doubt it could injure / kill unarmored humans.
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Yeah, it is a bizarrely light number, and it comes from a translation of Chinese measurement systems from the 16th and 17th centuries. So, there's always that to consider as well. Nonetheless, I think that we often view the past as monolithic, in terms of bow draw weights and other things as well. The Mary Rose bows varied by 40 pounds in draw weight, and all indications are that they were more or less general-issue weapons. So, I think we should expect quite a lot of variation in bow weights, be they for war or hunting in the pre-modern period. Especially when we consider how hard it would have been to get really accurate draw weight measurements in the absence of modern spring-based scale systems.
Benjamin H. Abbott:
The evidence for the numbers I listed is pretty overwhelming. What Ming source lists a 36lb bow? A very late (1637) Ming text says that strong archers draw 155-160lbs, average archers 125-140lbs, and weak archers around 80lbs. Selby's book lists many accounts of infantry bows at 147-167lbs and cavalry bows at 92-119lbs. Not all of these come from military exams, but such exams shouldn't be discounted. Adam Karpowicz's careful measurements and replicas of extant Turkish bows indicate an average draw weight of 111lbs. Similarly, a replica of a Scythian bow drew 120lbs. Karpowicz and Sebly identify 80-140lbs as common weights for composite bows in general. In the Qing era, about 80lbs was consider the minimum for effective cavalry use. Earlier accounts of Manchu bows give 106lbs as the average. Etc. Some soldiers in the eighteenth century couldn't pass examination with 80lb bows, but this wasn't considered acceptable. Some sources did encourage using a soft bow for mounted military usage, but this usually meant something 80-100lbs rather than extreme weights (up to nearly 240lbs) some folks would draw.
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