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Best point weight for quarter pound arrows?

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WillS:

--- Quote from: adb on August 18, 2014, 10:18:33 pm ---I've been using oak for my 1/4# arrows. Also, WillS, we've been getting 200 yards with 1/4# arrows from a 120# maple backed yew bow. It recently set a number of new CWBS records.

--- End quote ---

That's very impressive Adam.  Congrats! To clarify though, I wasn't saying it didn't fly without a 140# bow behind it, that was a rough estimate.  I just see a lot of people making them because they're listed amongst the other arrows but don't really do them justice.  I made some a while ago and I've stopped trying to shoot them as they just don't have the sort of energy from my bows (in the 120# range) to do the kind of damage they would be designed to do.  Still, perhaps that's saying more about my bows than the arrow!

Lucasade, I was chatting to Mark Stretton recently about the ewbs arrows, and it seems that with his deep understanding and knowledge of the genuine historical side of them, he approaches making arrows slightly differently to the rest of us.  For example, the EWBS Standard arrow is (when you use the specs) 3/8" thick.  So everybody makes them 3/8" thick, usually from ash.  Mark makes his 1/2" thick but uses woods like limewood and poplar to keep the weight right.  It seems that there was a huge influx of warbow archers who pushed the regulations right to the limit to win records, rather than keep things historical.

Mark believes that pretty much all medieval heads save a few would be half inch, including the Standard type 10.  He even has genuine 14th/15thC examples of Type 10s at half inch diameter sockets.  It made me realise that most of the EWBS arrows are actually likely to be a fair distance away from genuine medieval arrows, and are just a medieval look-a-like flight arrow. 

I have a feeling that the 1/4# arrow is the same, but from the other end of the spectrum.  It's pointlessly heavy, where we have no genuine example of anything so big, and its just a macho thing now, so people can pull out the largest arrow you can make and reel off a load of "this is what REAL medieval archers would be shooting....imagine an arrowstorm of these coming down at you" rubbish. 

There is written testing done by Mark in Secrets Of The English Warbow (I think, or a similar book) that shows the lack of any exceptional penetration with such a heavy arrow until you start chucking it from bows over 140#.  In fact at our latest ewbs shoot, it was only really Joe with his 170# who was properly getting through armour sheeting (cough...boiler cover....) and everybody else using heavy platecutters was lucky to get about half an inch through it

Lucasade:
That's really useful to know for when (if...) I get a proper warbow. I'm wondering whether to make things to EWBS spec even though I probably won't be joining for at least some time just so I know how I'm doing against a standard measure. I can imagine the medieval equivalent of Joe Gibbs at the butts showing everyone he can shoot a heavier arrow than them the same distance!

WillS:
I made the mistake early on of making 12 of each type - livery, standard and quarter pounder.  Don't need anywhere near that much and it cost me a fortune!  Best thing to do is make two of each society spec, and then a full sheaf of 24 medieval arrows that shoot well from a range of draw weights.  Something like half inch bobtailed poplar, with 6" fletchings cut to about 3/4" high (so Standard arrow size) and armed either with hand forged Type 10s, or machined cheapy heads. 

I reckon they'd be far more common during the 100 years war, and will actually shoot properly, rather than being a great mass of weight that looks impressive but doesn't actually do anything until you're right at the top of Warbow weights.

Benjamin H. Abbott:
While I don't know of any firm evidence for quarter-pound English arrows, some extant Manchu war arrows exceed 100 grams and supposedly some Japanese war arrows were that heavy or even heavier. Manchu bows appear to have been technically superior to yew bows - at least in terms of efficiency - but The Great Warbow tests show a 150lb yew bow does fine with heavy arrows. Quarter-pound English arrows may well have existed. Nearly all extant English arrows come from the Mary Rose, and I wouldn't expect to find super-heavy arrows on a ship. 

WillS:
I think you're absolutely right - there is evidence for them to have existed, but without something like 150# behind them, they just wouldn't have been overly effective.  With the MR bows being estimated at between 90 and 160#, it seems the majority would have been shooting lighter arrows (if we assume that the MR bows are similar to those used during the 100yw.)

That's not to say of course that some exceptional archers wouldn't have used even heavier bows (the Joes and Marks of the period) but I don't think 1/4lb arrows would have been the norm.

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