Author Topic: Laburnum (updated)  (Read 13755 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Springbuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,545
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2014, 07:18:18 pm »
  From a website called "the Poion Garden"

"How Poisonous, How Harmful?
Contains cytisine, a quinolizidine alkaloid whose effects are often described as being very similar to nicotine. It seems, however, that it is not nearly as strong a poison as nicotine. 

All parts of the tree are poisonous: roots, bark, wood, leaves, flower-buds, petals, and seedpods. The harmful part of the plant is the seedpods which are mistaken by children for peapods, usually after they have been shown how to eat fresh raw peas straight from the plant in the vegetable garden.

In many cases of ingestion of a small number of seeds there are no symptoms. Where symptoms do occur these are usually nausea and vomiting. Higher doses can produce intense sleepiness, convulsive possibly tetanic movements, coma, slight frothing at the mouth and unequally dilated pupils.

In 'Accidental poisoning deaths in British children 1958-77'* published by the British Medical Journal, Neil C Fraser writes 'Laburnum is frequently cited as the most toxic and commonly fatal poisonous plant in both children and adults, but there appears to be no report this century of a childhood poisoning death'.

In a 1979 contribution to ‘The Lancet’ entitled ‘Have you Eaten Laburnum?’, R M Forrester says that there are around 3,000 hospital admissions due to Laburnum poisoning each year. This figure is arrived at by extrapolating from the number of cases reported in the north-west of England. Yet, there are no reported cases of deaths in children due to laburnum. Forrester says ‘It is suggested that laburnum is not as dangerous as has been thought and that many of these admissions are unnecessary’.

There was a case, in 1970, where a paranoid schizophrenic, resident in a mental hospital, was believed to have committed suicide by eating a very large quantity of the fruits and this may have led to the belief that the tree was extremely dangerous. The case provided quite a puzzle for investigators since the man had had a brief conversation with a nurse only about ten minutes before death and had not reported or manifested any of the gastro-intestinal symptoms normally expected with severe laburnum poisoning.

*The article also says that in the period covered there were three deaths of children under 10 attributed to plants. Even this low number is overstated since one death was due to fungi and in one of the other two 'the role of ingestion in the child's demise is doubtful'. Thus there may have been only one confirmed plant death, with 'hemlock' being the plant responsible, in twenty years. The report deals with a total of 598 deaths and makes it clear that medication, household cleaning materials and cosmetics pose a much higher risk than poison plants."

  The article does go on to say elsewhere that breathing dust from sawing, or the fuzz of the leaves can be extrememly irritating to the lungs.




Offline JackCrafty

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 5,621
  • Sorry Officer, I was just gathering "materials".
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2014, 10:14:43 pm »
Well, if cytisine is so poisonous, I don't think it would be used to get people to quit smoking:

The 2011 efficacy study

Researchers from University College in London and the Cancer Centre in Warsaw, Poland have conducted a single-centre, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial on 740 smokers of more than 10 cigarettes per day (cpd). Participants were randomly assigned to receive cytisine for 25 days (six 1.5 mg tablets per day for 3 days, then 5 tablets for 9 days, 4 tablets for 4 days, 3 tablets for 4 days, and 2 tablets during the last 5 days) or matching placebo for 25 days. Twelve months after end of treatment, the abstinence rate was 8.4% in the cytisine group, and 2.4% in the placebo group. The relative smoking cessation rate between the two groups (RR=3.4; 95% confidence interval 1.7 – 7.1) was superior to what has been shown with NRT (RR=1.6) or varenicline (RR=2.3) against placebo. The main adverse events were related to nausea and stomach upset.

 The authors of this study concluded that cytisine is effective as a stop smoking medication. It remains to be seen if longer treatment duration could produce better abstinence rate (NRT and varenicline are usually used for 8-12 weeks) as well as combining behavioural treatment and cytisine.



---http://www.treatobacco.net/en/page_485.php
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline Holten101

  • Member
  • Posts: 295
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2014, 03:25:19 am »
Awesome bow wood indeed;-).

I havent had problems with checking, but we have very high humidity were I live. I dont think that stave looks bad at all....some knots, but that is almost impossible to avoid with Laburnum. Many of those knots might even disapear when you reach the heart wood, and even if they dont this wood can handle alot:-). In my experience it dries fast

I have handled all my laburnum without protection, and havent had any adverse symptoms, but better safe than sorry I guess.

Cheers

mikekeswick

  • Guest
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2014, 03:38:29 am »
I know of a horse it killed  ;)
Spliting it isn't something that needs rushing straight on with BUT it will check if left as a log. It's very humid here too and I had a piece check to the center. Spliting simply reduces the stress that gets stored up in a big piece as it dries and shrinks. Less thickness less internal stress.
Holten101 has nailed it  ;)
Labernum might be my favourite bow wood. You can make anything from it but DO NOT make a wide and thin flatbow with it eg. a whitewood bow. Go narrow and thick. In fact narrower and thicker than looks right  ;) Trust me on this one.

Offline Pappy

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 31,862
  • if you have to ask you wouldn't understand ,Tenn.
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2014, 05:03:50 am »
Who is planning on consuming it in excess. ;) ;D ;D Lots of stuff are poison if you eat it.  ;) Don't know nothing about the wood but looks like a good looking stick that just might have a bow hid in it somewhere. :)
   Pappy
Clarksville,Tennessee
TwinOaks Bowhunters
Life is Good

Offline Del the cat

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,294
    • Derek Hutchison Native Wood Self Bows
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2014, 07:01:13 am »
If you can't decide to split or saw... maybe just decide there is only one bow there and chop away the 'bad' side. That will take some stress out of it and give the checks somewhere to go (E.G the chopped out side may open up a tad, but should only split in as far as the centre).
I think you are pushing it to get two bows out of there anyway.
Made my first ever Yew English Longbow that way... I was too scared to risk splitting this precious log that it had taken me about 5 years to find!
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline Lucasade

  • Member
  • Posts: 335
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2014, 10:37:32 am »
Thank you all for the advice. I'm only intending to get one bow out of it as the deflexed side looks very unpromising.

The main thing I think with the toxicity is there was still some sawdust on the log and I have a three year old - but the kitchen has since been swept so we should be okay!

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2014, 11:38:28 am »
I'd like to know what type of tree produces knots that diminish towards the center of the tree?

Offline wizardgoat

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,397
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2014, 11:46:33 am »
PatM- I think maybe he meant a knot on the belly side  may disappear when you get past the centre.
       

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2014, 12:28:03 pm »
Not sure that makes sense.

Offline sieddy

  • Member
  • Posts: 708
  • Guaranga! :)
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2014, 01:01:55 pm »
The sap/heartwood contrast on that log is awesome! :D
"No man ever broke his bow but another man found a use for the string" Irish proverb

Offline wizardgoat

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,397
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2014, 01:06:57 pm »
I thought branches grow from the centre of the tree and out?
Ive seen lots of knots vanish from the belly when its rasped past the pith
I apologize if im missing something

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2014, 02:03:00 pm »
Yes, if the branch breaks off and grows over for several years.

Offline Springbuck

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,545
Re: Laburnum advice
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2014, 01:30:44 pm »
  Pat, a knot cna do either.  It may be from a branch that died, fell of and grew over, like you mentioned,

   OR, it might be that younger branch started later in the tree's life, creating a largish knot on the surface that get's smaller and smaller the deeper you go into the tree.  Cutting off a small branch leaves a knot.

I think that's what he meant.

Offline Lucasade

  • Member
  • Posts: 335
Re: Laburnum (updated)
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2016, 04:02:30 pm »
So I've been slowly working this down:











To my eye it's looking like a nice bit of wood - it's currently about 75" long and 3" wide. I'm going to reduce the sapwood to 2 or 3 rings. There's some twist at one end which I'll heat out and a lot of the knots have disappeared or won't be an issue.

The big issue I am seeing is the extreme reflex that has resulted from not strapping it down to dry, and I'm not convinced my skills are up to tillering it as it is. Would putting some deflex in at the handle or any other design tricks help me out here?

I'm intending to make this into a bow for my long-suffering wife so it will be in the 35-40# range and I really want it to set off the wood to best advantage, so opinions on potential alternative designs to a 30" draw ELB would be welcome.