Main Discussion Area > English Warbow
Mark Stretton 200lb Guinness World Record blog
Del the cat:
It's not a brick wall, it's logical questioning and responding to your assertions.
E.G Your assertion that the rolling loose involved the arrow being drawn back progressively through the process.
What we are doing is trying to methodically get to the bottom of the claims.
If it has been demonstrated with a 22# bow that a rolling loose gives more distance, then it should be possible to disect the rolling loose and find which component is adding the distance and optimise it.
1. Is it the drawing, lowering and raising of the bow?
2. Is it creating a snatch loose?
3. Is it the crouch down or does this just give a better launch angle?
4. Is it the leap forward?
5. Does it create a longer draw?
Note for 5. There is some overlap here with 1. From the archers viewpoint, due to the foreshortening, it is easy to think you are at full draw when you are an inch short. Maybe the rolling loose extends the draw beyond what would be achieved from a stationary release.
Mind any of this would be difficult to demonstrate conclusively short of programming an industrial robot to perform the actions.
E.G If I do the test and the rolling loose doesn't add distance you'll just say I'm doing it wrong.
Similarly if one of the rolling loose exponents does a static shot and it doesn't go so far, we will just say he's doing it wrong.
What is actually needed is rigorous discussion and experiment.
We don't mean to be ganging up on you, but you do rather adjust your claims an references like shifting sands or make assertions without providing links, or first hand data.
When you do make a specific testable claim then there is a chance to prove or disprove it. Karl Popper would be turning in his grave reading this thread!
Del
WillS:
Del, I don't think I've made any claims and changed them...?
The only thing I think I've said here as a statement of fact is that Joe sets his records using a rolling loose. Which, with the video evidence proving it, he does.
There is also a video I posted that is shot from behind him that clearly shows the arrow moving backwards until shot.
I don't feel like anybody's "ganging up" on me at all, but it does seem that people can't quite differentiate between modern day world record attempt flight shooting with massively heavy bows, and medieval military archery. Every time this discussion happens, people eventually pull out the "there's no way they'd do THAT in the middle ages" despite it being a completely irrelevant point.
You never see the rolling loose being used until somebody (usually somebody incredibly experienced) is trying to set a distance record. That alone, with no other elements involved, should go a long way towards accepting it as a valid technique. If everybody used it constantly and claimed it made all aspects of archery better, I'd be disputing it myself.
PatM:
--- Quote from: WillS on January 09, 2015, 06:22:41 am ---It's like a brick wall in here.
Nobody seems to have got the basic idea that this WASN'T used during war. This is a completely modern method designed by modern archers using 170lb bows.
Nobody is claiming it was used in the middle ages, nobody is claiming it helps you shoot heavier bows and nobody is claiming it's faster.
It was the only method used to break world records. That's all anybody knows.
They weren't shooting to break records in the middle ages. They didn't need to shoot beyond about 200 yards, whereas with the same equipment the rolling loose is being used to break 300 yards.
By the way Mike, it has been tested with a lighter bow. Michael Heinz made a video testing it. The rolling loose added 50 feet when using a 22lb bow, compared to a static release. But like I said, once the video came out all the guys clamouring that the rolling loose is rubbish went quiet and stopped talking about it.
I couldn't even see the video but I guarantee it was biased to make the rolling loose appear superior. Rod picked it apart quite adequately.
--- End quote ---
OTDEAN:
SERIOUSLY WILL,
Do you really think, that at a time, the 15th century to be precise, the zenith of military archery, do you honestly believe medieval bowmen would not have figured out to use the 'rolling loose' to gain a tactical advantage in range, if it did. Your claim that it is a modern invention can not be proven. I defy anyone in the past 50 years to say they have invented something new with wooden bows that has not been done before, to be honest we are re-discovering what what lost with selfbows. I just can't accept that people trained in artillery bows from the age of 7 would not have known they could get extra range by using the 'rolling loose' to give a tactical advantage in a battle. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.
HoorayHorace:
--- Quote from: OTDEAN on January 09, 2015, 04:01:53 am ---I think guys in the EWBS are wrapped in their own dogma like the rolling loose and nothing will change their minds that it does what they say it does for range, I reckon its just dogma to make it look more sexy.
I couldn't imagine fellas during the War of the Roses in a bow line at Towton shooting bows 100lbs plus prancing around like nancy's doing some rolling dance to get some extra yardage on range. The opposite forces would probably have pissed tha sens laughing.
--- End quote ---
The military is all about disapline. I did 4 years to know that.
I've shot longbow for 6 years now, and I think the warbow people have got it way wrong.
I've been doing a lot of research on them as of late. Seems all military uniforms and dancing around after shooting.
Prancing around after every shot seems odd, and I doubt would be tolerated in the armies of the day.
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