A debate

[PEARL DRUMS]

Somebody buy these guys a beer!

Nice conversation fella's

[_Jon_]

If an 18 year old can carry an M4 Assault Rifle, I'd think the same 18 year old should be able to carry a six pack of Brew.

[Marks]

Darnit. You got me fair and square on the Declaration of Independence but I stand firm on my point. The 14th Amendment gives us equal protection of laws.
I understand your point on us being what we make of ourselves but we need to all be on an even playing field. If it starts with alcohol, where does it stop?

[Josh B]

As I have already pointed out, military personel are subject to a different code of law known as UCMJ.  The fourteenth is irrelevant.  This has been entertaining, but no minds will be changed here and I have work to do.  Have fun.  Josh

[Marks]

I did a little research. The drinking age on military bases is the same as the state in which it is located (which is 21) unless it is within 50 miles of Canada or Mexico then it can be 18 but only under the approval of the base commander. Then drinking age overseas can be 18 depending on the country and again only under the approval of the base commander. I'm assuming all of this is on base because off base would be difficult for MPs to police and confusing for local police. Plus whats the point in visiting home and going to drink a beer when your buddies when technically they aren't legal to drink one with you.

[vinemaplebows]

Let's see....you can get married, vote, go to adult prison, sign documents that are life changing, and tell your parents to piss off....yep, you should be able to drink....but remember, that 18-90 yrs old does NOT make you responsible, and the responsibility that goes with drinking should be the focus of anyone that chooses to drink.

[Slackbunny]

I do believe that your questions regarding their maturity level and the assumption that they are no better than anyone else is indeed an aspersion upon their character.  I caught the part about your patriotism and I'm not questioning that.  I think what you're missing is that years alone are no measure of maturity.  Life experiences bring on maturity and that is the key to this debate.  I can't make you understand the life altering experience the military brings about with mere words.  That has to be experienced.  What I and others are trying to point out is that an 18 yr old service member cannot be compared as an equal with the average same age civilian.  The sum total of each category of 18 yr olds experience  is the Apple and orange comparison you referred to.  I also disagree with your assertion that these 18 yr old soldiers, marines sailors, coasties and airmen are not better than anyone else.

I have major issues with this. Before I continue, I would like to say that I have the utmost respect for the military in my home country of Canada and also for our neighbors to the south. I have several family members and friends who are in various stages of their military career from entry level to retirement. I commend every service person for their service.

But that being said, being in the military makes you no better than anyone else. I have a great respect for a number of people in the military that I know personally. But there are also just as many of them who I wouldn't let buy me beer, much less the other way around. I know a number of servicemen that I consider to be absolute scum, based on the way they treat their wives, their children, and the way they conduct themselves in general. I also know people who fill the whole spectrum in between those extremes.

I'm not intending to paint all service people with the same brush, just the opposite in fact. You don't automatically gain my respect for being in the military alone. That certainly scores you some good points, but you earn my respect by demonstrating your character. I absolutely will compare them equally with others, and will judge them on their merit and not their job description. They are still just people after all.

My point is that you can't make broad judgments about the character of any group of people, soldiers included.

[_Jon_]

"My point is that you can't make broad judgments about the character of any group of people, soldiers included."

I disagree somewhat.

I'll simply say that in general one may with a few exceptions here and there, judge groups of people based upon their character.

When one hears the word, Police Officer, one conjures up in one's mind a person who serves his fellow man, thus making a broad judgment.

When one hears the word Doctor, one tends to think of a Professional group of people who heal, tend others, and are positive contributors to humanity.

When I hear the word Soldier I think of someone who has decided, for reason known to the individual, of someone willing to do that which others have decided to opt out on.  I think of service to a greater good.  I assume I do this because I have a working knowledge of soldiers.  Perhaps I would feel different if this was not the case.

That's just my opinion.  I've been wrong before.    

[TimothyR]

I was in the Army and served in Iraq. Drinking was not allowed in country.  It happened but still not allowed. I think that if a young soldier is old enough to serve his/her country then he/she sould be able to buy a drink. That being said most young soldiers that I served with could not hold their liquor.  So it was not wise to drink especially if you could be attacked at any moment.  We we're mortared every day when I was over, most got shot down but some made it through. I. Would much rather someone sober watching my back than someone drunk. I also think that someone returning home from war will have enough to worry about. Its a hard transition from combat life to home life and most if not all troops returning home will have some sort of depression or PTSD and should not touch the stuff. Anyway thats my two cents. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

[sleek]

Ditto on the depression ( feel like you shouldnt be home. I almost volunteered another round when I was out ) and ptsd ( I dont have but know some who do ). Being home is often harder than being gone. I never drink when stressed or depressed.  For that very reason.

[_Jon_]

The original question was should young men and woman ages 18-20 who serve in the military be allowed to consume alcohol.  The question was vague however most would upon looking at the original question think it dealt with drinking here in CONUS (Continental United States).  Deployed outside the Continental US it's a non issue for the military, because Command directives will dictate who, where, when one may consume adult beverages.

The oath you take upon enlistment says your going to obey the orders of those appointed over you.  When you serve you give up certain rights.  That's the nature of the game.  You want to play, you got to pay.

18-20 year old military members are no different today then in past years by and large.

When I was stationed in the 101st back in 77-79 the drinking age was 18 years old, I was 18 years old so I had a few beers from time to time.  We had problems, but they were no more different problems then in 1997 then when I was a First Sergeant in the same Division years later.

You should not make laws for the few who cannot accept the responsibilities of adulthood.  Play stupid games, and win stupid prizes. 

The list goes on and on.

We should control guns because some people uses guns in the an unlawful manor.

We should restrict free speech because some people say hurtful things about others.

Freedom is about being free to make choices.  Every time some law is passed it's often passed to restrict someone's freedom.  I say let freedom ring.  Let those who are unable to act in an adult manor pay the price for making poor choices.  Don't make the vast majority pay for the actions of those unable to conduct themselves in a grown up fashion.  Adulthood requires people to conduct themselves as adults and accept responsibility for the actions they take.

I found it stupid that my son who upon graduation from Ft Knox KY and Armor School as an M1 Abrams Crewman could not have a cold beer with his Retired Airborne Infantryman  father.  We did not have that cold brew because we are adults and we made decisions based up right and wrong, rules, laws and regulations.  Still did not make it any less stupid.

Like I continue to say.  My opinion is my opinion.  Others may see things differently.      

[Dakota Kid]

I think the drinking age restrictions in our country help to promote eventual alcoholism. If you have to wait a long time for something, one tends to over indulge when that day finally arrives. Most countries that have no age restrictions on drinking have far lower alcoholism rates, some don't even recognize alcoholism as a disease. If you are brought up to have a beer or wine with a meal or after, there's nothing special/mysterious about it. I'm convinced that most of the restrictions on our freedoms put in place to keep us safe from ourselves, actually have the opposite effect. Everyone knows if you tell a child they can't do or have something all they can think about is what's forbidden.

[JEB]

Keep in mind that all have to obey the law.  Now if the law written says the legal age for alcohol consumption is 18 and this allows military  personnel to drink then so be it. BUT remember that the  senior high school class is chuck full of 18 year olds and that would make it legal for them to drink as well.

Be careful what you wish for.  Someday you young ones will have 18 year old sons and DAUGHTERS.  Get my drift.

[kid bow]

I got the drift

[Marks]

here ya go. lol