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question aboute warr bow...

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akila:
Yess this is the thing here with my friend...wi are live in Romania and here wi cant hunt with the bow...They put you in jail also...but this friend of mine is interestid in historical aspect....this is why he wants a bow like this...the only problem is that i dont think i will be able to make him from ash. :-\...i dont know..maybe iff i could put some backing or something..just to be safe....

John R:
Is a narrow round bellied "war bow" made out of ash actually historical? This is where I get kicked out of British bow forums: I'm with Pip Bickerstaffe on this one.. Anyone that's actually tried to build a narrow round bellied ash self bow at a really high weight has gotta come away with the idea that yes, the yew war bows were built the way everyone wants them to look like, but in the secondary woods, and let's use some common sense here, the secondary wood war bows HAD to have been built differently. Pip told me an old English long bow was anything that wasn't a cross bow. Now for those of you that want to jump on me for saying this, I hope the other guys that are on this board will chime in... Try to build a round bellied white ash self bow that won't gain massive string follow or just plain blow up in your face that's even over 80 pounds, let alone 160, and you are wasting your time.. Pardon me for being blunt, but anyone that thinks you can magically make White Ash violate the rules of wud is living in a fantasy land. Please ,prove me wrong, find one member of a British Bow Guild that actually sells a White Ash self bow that's over 100 pounds that follows the 5:8 rule set down buy the British Long bow Society...That's lees than 9 feet long BTW.s
Yup, this is about that time when I get called a yank with a bad attitude and anger management issues.

1/2primitive:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3835.0.html

John, here is a 90-95 lb Ash bow. Notice in reading that he says he knows someone who makes a 100 lb version from Ash..... I recall him saying that it takes an exceptional piece of wood, and, according to my speculation, no, it can't be made to the same specs as the Yew bows were. It is a less flexible wood, so it needs to be made wider to withstand the stress of bending. But nonetheless, a war bow can be made of Ash. Just not up to 160 lb.
     Sean

John R:
Yup, absolutely, make them wider and flatter so you're working within the particular wood's limits. I guess where I get upset is this stubborn notion that a heavy secondary wood ELB must fit a particular design based on "tradition". A perfect example of this can be found by googling English Longbow or long bow. A group of bow companies pop up. Go to any of the ones that are based across the ocean and you find trilaminates, and bows that are backed, made of woods that aren't native to Europe or the UK such as hickory.. Hickory isn't a European wood BTW. I'm a simple guy and think that since there is sooo much good available ash, white oak, elm and other woods that are Eurpean type trees, and since there are so many great bow makers out there, there must be a good reason why there aren't tons of heavy weight secondary self war bow for sale. There's a huge market just waiting for heavy weight secondary wood war bow replicas... Huge. They are simple bows, the wood is available, and plenty of skilled bow makers... And a huge potential customer base. It's a conspiracy I tell ya... It's all based on the perceived notion of what the actual bows must look like not what they really looked like. This ultimate perfect specimen of ultra high density white ash that made one or two bows doesn't wash. When tens of thousands of heavy weight self, secondary white wood bows were needed, did they really have the opportunity to search the country side for the perfect stave? I'll say it... I will always believe that the heavy secondary wood bows looked more like big flat bows... Why not? Is flattening a bow's belly really that huge of a technological jump?

Badger:
      a year ago I would have agreed with you guys. But I have readjust my thinking on this. I have found that yew bows will accomplish a design with typicaly less mass weight than many other woods which would translate into better cast, but not by a very big margin. last year I made several bows over 100# and 32" draws, nearly all of them were elb style. None of them were shot enough to be thourouhgly tested as I cant draw that much. so instead I just gave them good workouts on the tiller tree and monitored the results. But from what I can tell nearly any hardwood with reasonably good compression characteristecs can make a good shooting elb. Maple, red oak, ash, hickory, elm, cedar hornbeam, and no doubt many others. I don't think the strain on an elb is any greater than with any other bow design. It has a bendy handle which really relieves the rest of the limbs tremendously. regardless of the wood if the length and draw weight is the same I will just build them to the same mass weight from any wood. A 76" 150# elb I would build at 41 oz, it would automaticaly become an elb with a 5/8 ratio using that mass figure. Steve

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