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Rod:

--- Quote from: nick1346 on February 22, 2008, 08:11:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: Rod on February 22, 2008, 03:07:28 pm ---.
If we had had to face these people, we would have had to deal with it, not make excuses, so what does the response of the nay sayers tell us about the attitudes of todays war bow exponents?


Rod.


--- End quote ---

Care to expand on that Rod? I've noticed a strong feeling in your posts that anyone who does not immiedately take up your challenge is attacked! You implicated that I was some kind of a coward in a prior post on this thread! Setting forth a challenge and attacking anyone who may point reasons why that challenge has not been taken up on masse is no way to win people over to take up that challenge, in fact it will do the exact opposite. Attacking 'nay sayers' is no way going to get people to take up your challenge, to my mind it sounds like I'd be making a rod for my own back.

You state that two archers will take up your challenge. I know Mark will  we discussed this a few days ago and even though I've never met Jaro I know Mark holds in in very high regard so that holds a lot of water with myself but you could have so many more if you stopped the insults.

I'll take up your challenge on one condition you shoot with me and I'll choose the bow and arrows (and no I will not take the mickey with the kit) That way we will have a fair comparison, a warbow archer who is rubbish at target archery vs a target archer who is rubbish with a warbow. It would be fun and at least we could bury the hatchet :D

--- End quote ---


Nick,
I have no objection to shooting with anyone just so long as it is not boring.
 I do find it odd that you should now wish to compare your shooting with that of a "target shooter" after making such a fuss about not wishing to be compared.
But no matter.
Not that I would characterise myself as a target archer although I have dabbled in most styles of longbow shooting.
My preference is for instinctive unmarked distance field shooting.
You don't need to provide me with a bow, but you may wish to provide yourself with one.

nick1346:
There's nothing odd in it, I'm only wishing to compare myself against you thats why I shall provide you with the bow, unless of course you can provide yourself with a warbow and the correct arrows. Like I said we'll both be at a disadvantage, you'll be unused to the bows and I'll be unused to style of shooting and at the end we'll have a pint. The question is when and where? The depends on the distance between us the when should be before the start of Summer otherwise it'll die a natural death, say during May?

Rod:
Nick,
I take it as a given that you will hopefully be shooting a bow that you consider within your command that is of a higher draw weight than I might choose to use.
The fact that I shoot a lighter bow is neither here nor there since the object of the discussion with Mark and Jaroslav concerned the desirability of setting a benchmark in accuracy at the further end of intermediate distances for the heavy bow and 100 yards was chosen as the model based upon the not inconsiderable literature detailing practice in another but directly comparable war bow culture.

If you wish to make it, for whatever reason, a personal comparison, then you will have to accept that I will shoot a draw weight within my command.
But as I have said more than once, this would not be a meaningful comparison.

It seems that you still have some difficulty with the concept.
It is not about what draw weight I can handle. Though I did for a time shoot a 90lb bow, I have no intention of aggravating a damaged elbow by engaging in a contest of strength.
If you wish me to shoot with you, then I will shoot a bow that suits me, but as I have said, and will say again, this is not relevant to the proposition.

The proposition is about quantifying accuracy with any draw weight that you might consider to be within your command. Whoever you might be, your choice of draw weight is your own.

I fully understand that it is harder to hold a group as draw weight increases beyond a certain level, which differs for each individual, but the intention is not to draw a comparison between different applications.

It is however intended to help establish what level of accuracy is attainable with the war bow at the present time and to compare this with the yardstick of historical standards where possible, and to seek to raise the standard.
We might indeed classify draw weights by the level at which one loses command of the bow in practical terms of ongoing and consistent performance.
For example, a draw weight one might be able to make a few times, but would not choose to shoot habitually.
Mark freely admits that for him, this would include a 200 lb bow and considers 140 lb to 150 lb to be within his compass for shooting continually and with control, maintaining a steady rate of fire.
In this respect it is proposed that given a benchmark which is universally applicable, then others might have a standard to match or hopefullytry to better.

We take it as a given that the present standard is based upon draw weights, penetration and distances more than upon quantifiable accuracy.
Mark and Jaroslav understand this principle well enough.
 
It is for you to consider the draw weight that you consider within your compass and forget about what I choose to shoot.
If you mistakenly see this as a contest between us I would be happy to meet you on an NFAS field course shooting 3D's where you might feel less disadvantaged by shooting a draw weight that you do not regard as a handicap to shooting with accuracy.

On the other hand, I am quite happy to see you demonstrate that you can shoot a bow far  heavier than I would choose to shoot, if that is what it takes to see you contribute.

Rod.

nick1346:
Rod,

I haven't missed the point of your challenge at all, my challenge to you was to put you on the spot in the same you have sought to put the entire warbow community on the spot. You issued a challenge to a group of archers based upon something that is not what they normally do, when some of those archers, most vocally myself pointed out a few reasons why they would not do it you disregarded those points and instead set out to ridulcule them. I issued a challenge back to you based upon a manner of shooting to which you are unnacustomed you have stated an elbow injury, I accept that and I will not attack you saying things like 'well Rod we know the real reason' or label your points as mere 'excuses'. I could say something along the lines of 'well you shouldn't be worried about embarrasing yourself' or I could say something about your 'attitude' all of those things you have said to me but I won't stoop that low so please do me the same courtesy.

In fact I believe there is merit in getting a seasoned archer to shoot a comparison using a warbow against someone used to a warbow, it could be very enlightening indeed, of course the bow couldn't be to heavy but any grown man should be able to learn how to use a 100lb bow in a few months, certainly well enough for a comparison. It would put any results gained from a warbow into a least some context, as I have said before you cannot get much aprreciation of the qualites of a rally car by racing it against a superbike at silverstone. Merely comparing scores of a warbow against those of a recurve or whatever on target archery round doesn't actually say a lot about the overall qualities of warbow copmared to to other weapons. If you extended your challenge to include other aspects and types of bows then you could be onto a winner. But at the end of the day all you'll have is a set of results which don't really say a lot about the weapons overall qualities.

I may well actually take it up not out of embarresment ro trying to prove someone wrong but because I often think along the lines of what the hell :D

jamie:
just my two cents which are worth nothing in this style of shooting as i really only care about filling my belly. wouldn't it be necessary for a man shooting a warbow to be able to defend himself even at close distances. nice to kill a man far away but what about those who got through and are about to tear into you. shouldn't you be able to pick them off quickly at 20-50 yards. peace

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