Author Topic: Yew break-help figuring out why.  (Read 10331 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,119
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2015, 11:23:19 pm »
  Chinese elm is probably the most indestructible wood I have ever seen. I have a cupid style multi curve bow I literally cut out with massive violations everywhere. The bow has been shooting for years and years. It was not intended to be a shootable bow when I cut it out.

Offline Carson (CMB)

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,319
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2015, 01:51:59 am »
George, it is not imperative in all woods, and there are more than just a couple of woods that will tolerate a high degree of lateral grain runoff.   Saskatoon aka serviceberry, hawthorn and vine maple are just a couple I know of in addition to yew.

This one was pushing the limits, but I am sure it was the rot that had a big part in it. 
"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso

Offline George Tsoukalas

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,425
    • Traditional and Primitive Archers
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2015, 09:21:32 am »
Carson, I admit I used "imperative" for emphasis because a more forceful tone seemed to be needed. Looks like an even more forceful tone is yet needed here. LOL.

I know there are exceptions like hickory (already said that several posts back) but I still do it because Dad told me if I am going to do something, do it right. No shortcuts.

PatM, not talking boards here. That's a whole other topic.

I've made bows from the following log staves...yew, osage, elm, hickory, black locust, hop hornbeam, red oak, white oak, Aus. pine, lemonwood, American hornbeam, chestnut, maple and some others I forgot. Somewhere in the order of 2-300. That's in addition to the board bows. 26 years of making bows from boards, full log staves and saplings. It's been fun.

Once I followed the lateral grain, which you can read in almost any book on bowyery,  bow making got a little easier.

So the first thing y'all do is point out exceptions. It's not the exceptions that make a  good bowyer.

It is good sound technique with good toolsmanship ...knowing when to put down an aggressive tool in favor of one less so.

Yes, you can violate this categorical imperative but sooner or later ......in this case, sooner...you'll wish you did not.

The first thing I do when making a bow of any wood is look at the lateral grain and mark a line down the center of the stave following it.  I do this automatically whether the stave is split or sawn.

It is just good and proper bow making procedure. It's your foundation as a bowyer. It's the first row of blocks that you played with as a kid.

Lateral grain following is how we get those snakey bows that we all love to look at and oogle. :)

Best to everyone and I wish you continued success in your bow making. Above all have fun.

Gotta go work on my porch, which is much easier thanks to the carpentry/woodworking skills I learned from my dad.

Jawge
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 09:36:01 am by George Tsoukalas »
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline lebhuntfish

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,800
  • If the wood will bend, I'll make it beautiful!
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2015, 09:37:04 am »
Thank you George.
Patrick
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2015, 12:10:34 pm »
 I don't think you're quite getting what we're saying Jawge.  In some of those woods there essentially is no set lateral grain. I could show you a pipe straight elm that has an outer growth ring that looks like someone sinewed it across the back at 45 degrees in spots and changes direction at the other end. There is no way to mark a line and lay out anything close to following this.

    Lateral grain matters if the whole depth of the stave matches through the depth of the growth rings.
 It IS the exceptions that make a good bowyer. That's where you are learning something new.

Offline George Tsoukalas

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,425
    • Traditional and Primitive Archers
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2015, 01:03:06 pm »
Pat, so if you can't follow the lateral grain, then you don't but if you can you do.
I understand that you can get away with it with elm and hickory most of the time but just because you can does not mean you should always.
That's all I am saying.
All trees have lateral grain.
Read TBB 1.
Agreed. I have a lot to learn.
Lord willing he'll grant me the time to learn it.
Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,119
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2015, 01:11:44 pm »
  Jawge, I only use that tecnique on staves that would otherwise be firewood. If they break I am not disappointed but when they don't break I am pleased. Chinese elm is so tough I don't even give it a second thought.

Offline George Tsoukalas

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,425
    • Traditional and Primitive Archers
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2015, 02:08:57 pm »
Badger, are you saying that you only follow the lateral grain on potential firewood? Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline Badger

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,119
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2015, 03:22:10 pm »
 Jawge, no, . Normal circumstances I split wood like everyone else or in some cases draw a line following the grain and bandsaw. If I have a piece of hickory or elm or sometimes yew that has some twist to it I don't want to deal with I ignore the grain and saw it out straight and hope for the best. Chinese elm I don't sweat at all, hickory I feel pretty safe with and yew I hope for the best.

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2015, 03:50:28 pm »

All trees have lateral grain.
Read TBB 1.

   But not uniformly through the depth of the stave... You are assuming the outer growth ring perfectly reflects the whole stave.  It does in clean splitting woods that just pop apart like Maple but as soon as you run into a tangled web of fibers  when splitting other woods you're seeing the chaos of lateral grain changing direction.
 A book on wood rather than the broad generalizations of Volume 1 will show you that. ;)

Offline George Tsoukalas

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,425
    • Traditional and Primitive Archers
Re: Yew break-help figuring out why.
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2015, 04:18:54 pm »
Badger, I understand and I agree.

PatM, I think what you are saying is that elm has an interlocking grain which makes it hard to split and hard to follow that lateral grain line?
Then I agree.

Got it. Elm is the exception to the rule.
Jawge
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 04:32:53 pm by George Tsoukalas »
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!