Author Topic: Laminated wood arrows  (Read 4367 times)

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Offline JNystrom

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2016, 02:29:25 pm »
   Willie, I think with flight arrows we actually need to use denser woods, stiffness is always an issue. I have had the best luck with purple heart and larch so far. Some doug fir I have found is dense and stiff as well.

Did you mean "....we actually need to use denser woods, stiffness ISN't always an issue"?
With spruce you get really stiff and light arrows, even though they seem to come quite thick (at least my rookie arrows). Last quite "ok" spruce arrow, 23" long, with ~63-65 pound draw was 7,7mm thick.

Offline Badger

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 04:05:46 pm »
   Willie, I think with flight arrows we actually need to use denser woods, stiffness is always an issue. I have had the best luck with purple heart and larch so far. Some doug fir I have found is dense and stiff as well.

Did you mean "....we actually need to use denser woods, stiffness ISN't always an issue"?
With spruce you get really stiff and light arrows, even though they seem to come quite thick (at least my rookie arrows). Last quite "ok" spruce arrow, 23" long, with ~63-65 pound draw was 7,7mm thick.

  Yes, denser woods. How much did your spruce arrow weigh? 65# spine at 7.7 mm is very good

Offline willie

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 04:06:43 pm »
when comparing designs of equal stiffness, I am guessing that the extra drag created with the larger diameter spruce would negate the initial speed gained when using the lighter wood.

drag being "what it is" at typical flight arrow velocity (300 fps?), could the woods mentioned as preferred be considered a good compromise stiffness/ mass?

Btw, purpleheart is often listed at .85  S.G.

Does the better fine grained doug fir / western larch  seem to have similar densities?

mikekeswick

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2016, 11:07:43 pm »
I think the glue line does increase spine a bit, But I am sure that it does increase the elasticity of the wood.

Static spine maybe a little but arrows spin ;) I was talking about dynamic spine.

Offline Badger

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2016, 01:44:24 am »
    On a 23" arrow I seldom go below about 170 grains usually closer to 200 grains. I can do that with purpleheart, doug fir, po cedar and many other woods. The larch, Purple heart and doug fir seem to give me better diameters. The speeds from the 50# bows are usually in the 240 fps range with 200 grain arrows.

Offline JNystrom

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2016, 03:15:21 am »
   Willie, I think with flight arrows we actually need to use denser woods, stiffness is always an issue. I have had the best luck with purple heart and larch so far. Some doug fir I have found is dense and stiff as well.

Did you mean "....we actually need to use denser woods, stiffness ISN't always an issue"?
With spruce you get really stiff and light arrows, even though they seem to come quite thick (at least my rookie arrows). Last quite "ok" spruce arrow, 23" long, with ~63-65 pound draw was 7,7mm thick.

  Yes, denser woods. How much did your spruce arrow weigh? 65# spine at 7.7 mm is very good

It weighted 188gr. I dont think the shaft was even that specially stiff for spruce.
Well nice to hear, of course while trying these laminated arrows im going to try make smaller and stiffer spruce arrows, and maybe find purpleheart.
Actually im afraid the 188gr spruce arrow was under spined... Well see after some testing. I happen to have a good 330+ yard field to test shoot some.

Offline Badger

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2016, 11:18:46 am »
  I should have left purple heart out of that group. Even though I have gotten some great arrows from purple heart the grain is hard to read and it is prone to splintering, same with ipe.

Offline JNystrom

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2016, 12:48:05 pm »
This is soon coming to an -all arrows- thread, but what ever. :D Theres never enough information about flight arrows!

About the purpleheart arrows... Here in Finland, many records are made with purpleheart arrows. I don't know if the active shooters just copied others and never actually experimented different species enough, or that purpleheart is actually very good wood for flight arrows.
What i have heard atleast, is that it makes very thin arrows, atleast compared to the common spruce.

Offline JNystrom

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2017, 04:16:17 pm »
I'm back working with laminated flight arrows. Because of a very torturing exchange period in Crete  :laugh: and a period of no-bow-making, my laminated arrows haven't proceeded that much. I have some test strips glued together that i'm looking forward to spinning into shafts. As the snow starts to melt down, there will be furious tests with laminated arrows also!
Just got me thinking of these arrows, is the heat treating. Throw it in there too. Possibly get the weight down, stiffness up, moisture barrier, shrink - what is it, but try atleast.

Has anyone done any resent experiments with laminated arrows?


Offline willie

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 11:56:32 am »
Quote
Has anyone done any resent experiments with laminated arrows?

No, but I am drying some spruce for projects this coming winter.

Any updates on how your laminated arrows are working out?

Offline JNystrom

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2017, 01:22:49 pm »
Actually nothing special. I heat treated the spruce slats and then glued. Ended up nice straight, but not stiffer than normal 1 piece arrow without heat treatment- i think... They were made from quite bad spruce, so i have some interest to try it again.

Offline willie

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2017, 03:21:02 pm »
I tried some black spruce with very high ring count with disappointing results.

After reading this I have decides to look at other factors to find some stiffer boards

https://spruce2015.ualberta.ca/Portals/15/SpruceDocuments/Presentations/b1-sattler.pdf?ver=2015-10-26-161149-583

http://timber.ce.wsu.edu/resources/papers/9-5-2.pdf

TDLR: higher cambrial age, lower growth rate, lower stand elevation, and wood taken from lower in tree all increase odds for higher stiffness.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:02:42 pm by willie »

Offline Hawkdancer

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2017, 07:26:06 pm »
 >:D  be glad to send out some super well aged (like40 years)cedar fence slats!  >:D  Actually it is probably to brittle, I can snap most of it by hand.  Just trying to figure out what to do with it, besides firewood, burns real fast.  Can't cook with it or smoke hides!  Does have a nice smell when burning, though.  Right now, I am staying with red osier dogwood shoots and maybe some Sitka spruce.  Haven't found a straight cedar long enough to do anything with!  Good info, everybody.
Hawkdancer

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2017, 06:09:13 am »
I made hunting arrows out of Black Spruce a long time ago, just gave one of the last ones I had left to a young Cree from Moose Factory.  The wood is quite stiff for it's density but it can be a bit brittle.
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline willie

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Re: Laminated wood arrows
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2017, 12:45:00 pm »
Would that be Western Red cedar? I guess the most important thing is how stiff is it?

I think that most spruces are fairly similar in stiffness, given the same growing conditions. The Black I tried was weak most likely on account of being overmature and stunted, it can grow in some rather wet locations and the extremely high ring count did not count for much. Black spruce around here, if growing in a drier than typical location are quite similar to White spruce and the local White spruce hybridizes with Sitka spruce.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 12:51:21 pm by willie »