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holly bow loosely based on x-1-3

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willie:

--- Quote --- In the last couple of years I started increasing my time on the long string and for me I get less set.
--- End quote ---

Interesting observation Steve. Perhaps the different results can be attributed to differences in the way we implement the method? Would you ever pull to full design weight (on the longstring), to bring the stave to brace height? How far do you find yourself drawing out the bow on the longstring?

IIRC, I did some calcs once that indicated bending a stave to brace height with the full weight and with stiff unreduced limbs can overstress the center third of a bendy handle. I was suspecting that I had damaged the wood on a bow I was tillering. Not to the point of creating permanent set, but the slow-to-return hidden damage kind of temporary set.

Like Will and Del, I do not bend a bow much past brace height on the longstring, but I do reduce the weight I use to get the limbs back that far, if I am still making adjustments to tiller. I actually try to bring the bow to brace height with less than full weight, in order to leave the center third less stressed in the early stages of tillering.


--- Quote ---Personally I feel that the longer a bow is "tortured" on a tiller, drawn inch by inch and "exercised" the more the wood is being taught to prefer being drawn than being straight which is of course the opposite of what we want.
--- End quote ---

I agree Will, at least for bows that are my own, and I can make tillering adjustments to,  whenever needed. For a reliable shooter to be used by another, I tend to exercise more as I go, and guess what I end up with is basically an overbuilt bow.

I have never considered that the "torture on the tiller" method is necessarily part of the long string method per se, but both are often presented together in some tutorials, so I can see where one might think they go hand in hand.

Badger:
  Del, in the video the string was quite a bit too long for any kind of accurate read. I completely ignore tip movement, I am studying the shape. I don't got to full draw weight until I get the limbs bending even but from that time on I am at full draw weight on every pull. You are correct that stresses are different on a braced bow vs a long string drawn bow. I usually allow for that in my tiller shape.

   Willie if you pull a bow to full weight before it is bending even yes you could set the middle third of the bow. On a new bow I am watching the middle third very closely for movement until I get everything bending pretty good.

   Out of the dozen or so long bows I built over the last few months 1" of set was the worst I got. I had a couple I had to back off from target weight to avoid set. One I had a target of 120# and ended up at 100# because I started off with too much flex in the middle.

Badger:
Del, I noticed you said it took about 100# pull to brace this bow, it didn't take 100# pull to brace it, only because your string was so long, with a shorter string it would have taken 1/2 that same pull. You start loosing leverage the moment you start pulling on a bow, thats the main reason the bow gets heavier, very little to do with the wood getting harder to bend.

mikekeswick:
Badger - you took the words right out of my mouth!
Tillering with a long string puts less stress on the stave than bracing too early eg. whilst the tiller may still be off (if the tiller isn't off at all then of course it is fiune to brace it. The whole idea of using a long string is that it allows you to see the bend at lower strain on the 'bow to be'.
Will you seem to like to exaggerate when you describe tillering with a long string.....nobody advocates torturing wood with one! I suspect you got better at making bows/tillering right around the time you decided to concentrate on getting your tapers correct pre bracing/not using long string tillering. As I just said a long string by definition puts less strain on the wood. If however somebody using one incorrectly then sure you could start inducing set whilst using one. but use one correctly and you should start to see less set than bracing early and potentially missing weak/stiff spots (that I agree will only be there if the taper is incorrect). Different ways to skin a cat.

Del the cat:

--- Quote from: Badger on August 28, 2017, 10:09:57 pm ---Del, I noticed you said it took about 100# pull to brace this bow, it didn't take 100# pull to brace it, only because your string was so long, with a shorter string it would have taken 1/2 that same pull. You start loosing leverage the moment you start pulling on a bow, thats the main reason the bow gets heavier, very little to do with the wood getting harder to bend.

--- End quote ---
Yeah, it wasn't a great example  :-[... the "long string" there was just my warbow stringer string.
For long string tillering I use my string adjuster (ring of aluminium) to give me a string that I can only just get on the bow.
Del

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