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tip tips please

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stuckinthemud:
Evening everyone.
When carving buffalo horn tips into (side) nocks, what are the approximate length:width dimensions I should be aiming for? The tips I have carved are over-sized, I think,at two inches long and the string grooves are a long way from piercing through the horn. They are 12mm across the socket, 14mm outside diameter.
Thanks

Del the cat:
Like most things... experience will get you there.
IMO it is by far the best way to mount the horn on the limb tip, then shape it. I used to try and shape 'em first.
The big first mistake is to start with a huge bit of horn... most blanks will provide both nocks rather than just one.
The effect you are looking for is as thin layer of horn that you can almost see through in places... so just 2 or 3 mm thick.
The groove must be a reasonable distace above the base of the nock (I often see nocks where it isn't) else it can split out.
Second common mistake is the hole is bored out as a conical hole at too steep and angle giving a short sharp taper. IMO a long slender slightly curve shape should be given to the tip and to the drill bit. There is video of me doing horn nock (not side nocks) on my Youtube channel ELB build along...  it even shows how to make mistakes :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1VHUkDEGJA&index=9&list=PLBz2tD9476KQFyMBLEylQGh952tBT_mZB
People will doubtless have other opinions, but mine is that all surfaces should be smooth and rounded else they will chaffe the string.
I don't do them often, but there's one on this post from my blog.
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/side-nocks.html
Del

WillS:
Sidenocks are very different to Victorian nocks.  The horn needs to be very thin - virtually translucent.  If it's too thick you need to carve down through it too far, making everything lean when braced.

The MR sidenock was 70mm long, and the slot starts about 6mm from the base.  It needs to be cut at an angle slightly less than 45 degrees, and must go through the horn into the wood.  This is crucial for buffalo horn otherwise all the strain of the string is on the lip of the horn, which will split easily.  The wood needs to take the downward force, and the horn is there to support the wood from the crushing force of the string around the back of the bow.

Basically, the smaller you make the horn the better.  You don't want it to look like there's a chunk of horn at the end, but it should look more like the bow tip suddenly changes colour.

Del the cat:
I'm assuming Will's "6mm from the base" is a typo and maybe he meant 16mm?
Weapons of Warre has the scale drawing of the nock (see below) and it looks more like 16mm minimum to me, and nearer 20mm at the higher edge.
I'm willing to stand corrected if he has handled the nock and measured it.
Del

colin1991:
Keep them thin and no need for the bulb need the base like in a Victorian nock. Just blend them into the limb with a nice smooth transition. Like Del said, Mount them and then shape them on the bow.

As far as Buffalo horn splitting if it's not cut to the timber... Nope, I've got buff horn on 100+lb bows that's just into the horn and they hold up just fine. You will be able to tell straight away if the horn is no good when you're working it because it will crumble.

Will, sorry mate but you are really getting the engineering and mechanics of a horn nock mixed up. Horn is stronger in both crushing and shear that the timber bow limb. The horn provides a stronger surface and larger bearing surface for the string to contact, preventing the tip from failing. Cutting the nock groove into the timber is purely coincidence and simply because of the shape of the cone in the horn, the horn tip itself and the shape the groove needed to be to hold the string on the bow for that particular bow.  Better to have the groove too deep so the string can't possibly come off in battle than too shallow where it might.

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