Author Topic: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (Bad news pg 3)  (Read 1554 times)

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Offline gfugal

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (tiller advice needed pg 2)
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2018, 08:14:39 pm »
   How much mass weight does that bow have? I figured with a 30" draw and 5" of reflex you might want about 22 to 23 oz mass weight.
It's currently at 26 oz, so I have a ways to go still I guess. But I'm aiming for 40-50 lbs at 28 inches (well closer to 29 based on how I measure draw length) so I don't know how that changes your calculations much.
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline gfugal

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (tiller advice needed pg 2)
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2018, 08:23:35 pm »

Tempering a bow that has already ticked and been backed seems like a bad idea.
Oh, yes, I forgot!  Good catch.   O:) :-[  If it was me, I'd have looked everywhere for that "tick".

Before backing it I ran my fingers across the whole back but couldn't feel anything. Then I ran a rag across it to see if it would snag. Nothing so I just sanded it again and glued on the linen with TB3. It's possible the string moving in the nock made that sound, it was very faint. By tempering the belly do you mean heat treating it? If so why would that be a bad idea. Doesn't it make the belly stiffer. If I didn't back it then I could see how it could break in tension, but supposing the backing is good, the linen should actually be stressing the belly, no? since flax/linen is stiffer than wood, maybe that's why I got set?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 08:27:45 pm by gfugal »
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline gfugal

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (tiller advice needed pg 2)
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2018, 10:08:07 am »
That right limb is quite flat 4" off the fade. Maple is maple, don't expect minimum set.
Not exactly that straight-forward, but those are places to look at, to compare with the other limb for instance.

Yellow arrow on the RT limb: Pearldrums is right, the first few inches of limb off the fade is flat.  About where the red arrow is, it starts bending more than the other limb.  By the time you hit the next red arrows it looks to be flat.

Left limb is bending less than the right at the red arrow, but the bend profile looks more correct.  At the yellow arrow on the left, it looks just a tad soft, but only right there at the arrow.



So that 4 inches where it is straight right out of the right fade is where that green arrow is? or did you mean the left limb? Cause the left looks stiff out of the fade too, just don't want to mess with the wrong side if you meant to say left side, and not right.
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline Badger

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (tiller advice needed pg 2)
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2018, 12:14:16 pm »
  I see the same thing you do Greg, the left limb has a flat spot and the right limb looks fine.

Offline Springbuck

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (tiller advice needed pg 2)
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2018, 12:55:54 pm »
I won't argue with Badger.

Be sure that section of the RT limb where the biggest bend is, isn't doing too much due to the combination of the reflex + bend. 

Next step may be comparing an unstrung photo NOW to where you started, and look for any area that has taken more set than the rest.

Offline gfugal

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (tiller advice needed pg 2)
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2018, 01:09:45 pm »
I won't argue with Badger.

Be sure that section of the RT limb where the biggest bend is, isn't doing too much due to the combination of the reflex + bend. 

Next step may be comparing an unstrung photo NOW to where you started, and look for any area that has taken more set than the rest.
That's what's tripping me out, you would think the right limb would have more set, but it's the left one that has. I might post a picture when I get home. I'm not going to have an opportunity to work on it till Tuesday anyway. 
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline Springbuck

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (tiller advice needed pg 2)
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2018, 02:03:05 pm »
That is interesting.

Offline gfugal

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (bad news pg 3)
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2018, 07:32:06 am »
AHHH UGH  (--)  :-\


It broke! I think I might be cursed cause I can't seem to make a bow lately for the life of me. Am I really that bad? maybe I'm doing something majorly wrong that I don't know about? For some-reason this piece of wood was getting quite a bit of set, whether that was the issue of the wood, my design, or my tillering method I'm not quite sure. As you can see in this next picture, it had gotten maybe 2 inches or more of set from the original profile on the first page.


Maybe my tiller was off, causing too much stress on too little area. This is the last picture I took of the tiller at 20". I had gotten it tillered to 26" before it broke at a full draw of 28" but I don't have a picture of it that far, since I didn't want to leave it strung on the tillering stick for that long. Maybe I would have more sucess if I make a tillering tree with a pully. But I don't have a place to put that at the moment since I live in an apartment.


I'm surprised at where it broke. It wasn't at a knot, and it doesn't look like a hinge to me. It didn't even seem like that was the spot that was taking set on that limb. If anything I would have thought the right limb would have broken before the left based on the tiller. Maybe I caused some internal damage at that spot when I was applying serious torque to fix the limb twist?

So yeah, I'm a bit bummed out. I never drew it past 40 lbs, It was 66" NTN and the limbs were nearly 2 inches wide. Ah well, I guess I'll chalk it up to experience and move on. Unfortunately, that was plan B for Upstantenybowyer. Plan C is to see if I can somehow mend the previous bow I was working on for the trade, as it didn't officially brake yet, but I'm not too hopeful. If that doesn't work I think I might just have to respectfully bow out. I gave it my best, sorry I couldn't deliver.
Greg,
No risk, no gain. Expand the mold and try new things.

Offline Hans H

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (Bad news pg 3)
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2018, 09:38:25 am »
I'm sorry, Feel with you. A few weeks ago  I had nearly the same  problem with an snaky BL
Hans
Hans,      Bavaria, Germany

Offline JWMALONE

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (Bad news pg 3)
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2018, 10:26:17 am »
You can make an apartment friendly tillering tree with a pulley. Get you a piece of 4by4 and a 6 foot 2by6. mount the 4by on the end of the 2by with a pulley mounted to the 2by directlt under it,then another pully on the other end of the 2by. Then you stand on the 2 by. I saw that some where seem to work for the fellow.
Red Oak its the gateway wood!

Offline Selfbowman

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (Bad news pg 3)
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2018, 11:32:31 am »
The set tells me the outer limbs have too much mass. Either in thickness or width . That one  I can't see in the pics. It should not have failed do to that though. It was looking good! You will get out of the slump. Just get another stave and get with it.  Arvin
Well I'll say!!  Osage is king!!

Offline stuckinthemud

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (Bad news pg 3)
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2018, 01:18:28 pm »
Argh, oh for Pete's sake, i don't believe it ,didn't see that happening, gutted for you !

Online Jim Davis

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (Bad news pg 3)
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2018, 01:32:40 pm »
I've got two cents I don't need:

The best tillering the world has ever seen will not prevent breakage if you try to get more weight/draw length than the wood can stand.
Jim Davis

Kentucky--formerly Maine

Offline upstatenybowyer

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (Bad news pg 3)
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2018, 01:42:51 pm »
I've had bows fail where I had to use a lot of force to remove a twist. I think it could weaken the wood for sure.

No worries buddy! It means a lot to see the determination you've put into this. Lord knows I understand how tough it can be to make a quality bow without it exploding. I've had more than my share of failures.

Don't get too discouraged!  ;)
"Even as the archer loves the arrow that flies, so too he loves the bow that remains constant in his hands."

Nigerian Proverb

Offline bjrogg

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Re: Bow for Upstatenybowyer (Bad news pg 3)
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2018, 02:43:39 pm »
That's when I do some knapping or build some arrows or tan she some hides. Then I come back to a new stave. It just happens. The tiller didn't look to bad. I do like pully for exercising limbs. Wish you had more space. I'm impressed with your determination you'll win.
Bjrogg
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