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Pitch for hafting question
Hawkdancer:
I think I will try flaxseed oil instead of castor bean oil - that stuff is poisonous! Flaxseed oil is food grade, I use it in my spoon finish. I think charcoal is a bit better than rabbit poop merely from my background in health and as a medic. Of course rubber gloves help! (lol). I will try to find a good formula for bow rosin. I think a start might be 4 parts pitch, 1 part beeswax, and 1 part oil! Neat idea about the little crockpot! I'll have to look for one, it might work several different projects.
Hawkdancer
DC:
I think the idea was to start with hard dried pitch. The beeswax takes the edge off the brittleness and the rabbit dung acts as fiber(think fiberglass). I may be wrong.
Pat B:
You are exactly right, DC. Dried rabbit or deer poo, fine saw dust all do the same as the finely ground charcoal.
willie:
From another website. Some recipes for cutlers resin, used by knifemakers for attaching handles.
fillers range from poop to brick and stone dust to wood ashes.
--- Quote ---
I found an excellent post on Cutlers resin on Leatherworker.net by someone named "Knife Knut". Here's a link to the post CUTLERS RESIN POST. I tried to contact the author to properly credit him, or her, but have not heard back yet. If I do, I'll add their name. (the author is John Robert Mott, email JohnMott.SC@gmail.com)
The author of the post did a lot of research on this. Here's a copy of the posting (some of the links are broken, but the references may still be valid):
"The Old Recipies:
I have found There is much conjecture and error in current sources compared with old sources, which is one of the reasons for my search for multiple older sources. At this time, all of my older sources come from Google Books. Apparently reciepts has been replaced by the word recipie in modern word usage. Redundant recipies will not be posted from multiple older sources ( they are often repeated from source to source), as I will link to the sources, and so the sources listed are by no means exaustive. Text will copied and pasted as these references have passed into public domain.
Wrinkles and recipes: compiled from the Scientific American. A collection of ... edited by Park Benjamin
http://books.google....as_maxy_is=1860
Cutlers': (1) Pitch 4 parts, resin 4, tallow2, and brick-dust 2. (2) Resin 4, beeswax 1, brickdust 1. (3) Resin 16, hot whiting 1, wax 1. This is used for fastening blades in handles
Chambers' encyclopædia: A dictionary of universal knowledge, Volume 3 By William Chambers, Robert Chambers
http://books.google....20resin&f=false
Cutlers' Cement, used for fixing knives and forks
in handles, is made of equal weights of resin and brick-dust melted together; or, for a superior quality, 4 parts of resin, 1 of beeswax, and 1 of brick-dust.
The Working man's friend, and family instructor, Volumes 1-2
http://books.google....20resin&f=false
Cutlers' Cement, to fix knives and forks In tlieir handles. Black rosin, four ounces; beeswax, one ounce ; well-dried and finely-powdered brick dust, one ounce. Melt, and blend the ingredients intimately, and use in a liquid state. Thia will be found useful in families, as many, even of the best knives and forks aie not rivited into the handles. At. the same time, persons ihould avoid plunging- the handles into hot water, or exposing them to heat.
Workshop Receipts: for manufacturers and scientific amateurs, Volume 1
http://books.google....AAJ&output=text
Cutlers'.—This is the name given to various kinds of cement used for fastening knives, etc., in their handles.
(1) A very firm cement is made of 4 parts resin, 1 of beeswax, into which, when melted, 1 part of fine brickdust is stirred. It adheres with great firmness.
(2) Take powdered resin, and mix with it a small quantity of powdered chalk, whiting, or slaked lime, Fill the hole in the handle with the mixture, heat the tang of the knife or fork, and thrust in. When cold, it will be securely fastened.
(3) Take 1 lb. resin and 8 oz. sulphur, melt together, form into bars, or when cold reduce to powder ; 1 part of the powder is to be mixed with 1/2 part of iron filings, brickdust or fine sand ; fill the cavity of the handle with the mixture, and insert the tang, previously heated.
(4) Pitch, 4 parts ; resin, 4 ; tallow, 2 ; brickdust, 2. Melt the first three ingredients, and add the brickdust hot and finely powdered.
(5) Chopped hair, flax, hemp or tow. mixed with powdered resin and applied as above.
(6) 16 oz. rosin, 16 oz. hot whiting, 1 oz. wax. (7) 5 parts pitch, 1 wood-ashes, 1 hard tallow, melted together.
(8) 4 lb. black rosin melted with 1 lb. beeswax, and 1 lb. red hot whiting added.
(9) 16 oz. rosin, 8 oz. sulphur ; melt, and when cool reduce to powder. Mix with this some fine sand or brickdust, and use as stated.
(10) Take a portion of a quill, put it into the handle, warm the tang, and insert it into the quill in the handle and press it firmly. This is a simple method, and answers the purpose required very well.
New Recipies
Here are contemporary recipies that are not from primary sources.
Cutler's resin- any recipes?
http://forums.dfoggk...?showtopic=1403
5 parts pitch
1 part beeswax (tallow can replace this-available from your butcher)
1 part filler (wood dust, ash, metal dust, etc)
http://www.marquis-k...u/mt/000646.htm
8 oz pine pitch, 1/4 cup carnauba wax and 4 oz of beeswax,
Making Pitch Pine glue or cutlers resin...
5 oz Pitch pine resin
1 oz beeswax
1/4 oz carnuba
1 oz powdered charcoal
poured it onto a sheet of baking paper and let it just spread out under gravity. I kept an eye on it, and as it started to cool to the texture of putty, I rolled it up into cigars
Pine pitch is the key
http://www.bladeforu...046&postcount=5
1/2 lb of pine pitch
1/4 lb of beeswax
1/4 cup of flaked carnauba wax
Glue Recipies
http://www.knives.co...pies_glues.html
Cutlers Cement
Pine Resin, 8 parts
Sulphur, 2 parts
Iron filings, 3 parts
Cutlers Cement
Tar, 10 parts
Wood Ash, 2 part
Tallow, 1 part
Cutlers Cement
Pine Resin, 4 parts
Bees Wax, 1 part
http://www.janellest...l/adhesives.txt
8 oz pine pitch,
1/4 cup Carnauba wax
4 oz beeswax
I just ran up to the shop and tested - with my marking knife attached to
a ceiling clamp by the blade, I was able to hang from the handle with no
ill effects to the joint.
Pine Resin and Charcoal Glue Recipe
i use an empty minwax 1\2 pint can.
i fill the can about half way with pine resin
roughly 1- 1.5 tablespoons of wood ashes
roughly 1- 1.5 tablespoons of bear grease that has been thickened with wax (my bear grease is thickened to consistency of crisco vegtable shortening or a creamy peanut butter)
What I use is about equal parts pitch, bees wax and charcoal powder or fine saw dust.
Cutler's resin by Chuck Burrows, a knifemaker of stout repute:
5 parts pitch
1 part beeswax (tallow can replace this-available from your butcher)
1 part filler (wood dust, ash, metal dust, etc)"
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Another forum member, Orien M, passes along some good tips
--- Quote --- Posted March 15, 2012 (edited)
Mine is very basic:
Roughly equal parts by volume of pine pitch (pinon rosin, heated and strained)
and powdered charcoal (or stone, brick, metal filings...any particulate filler seems OK)
plus about 5-10% beeswax (for flexibility)
The exact proportions depend on climate, available materials, and probably my mood at the time :P. The most crucial element as far as I'm concerned is how much wax gets added, too much makes the glue tacky, while too little leaves it brittle. I add wax a little at a time, and periodically drop a little bit of resin into a pan of water to cool so I can handle it and check the texture. It should be hard to dent, but also hard to chip...a happy medium :)
In actual glue-up, this stuff is worked with hot, so it will flow...it also helps adhesion to heat all the metal parts, and to have a heat gun or other heat source handy to extend working time. It sets up very quickly once it starts to cool down.
A few other considerations: overcooking the glue will make it more brittle, and each time a pot is reheated it seems to change the balance somewhat, too. I prefer not to add fiber to my glues (as in the moose droppings above); in my opinion it makes the mixture too clumpy without adding much strength. This glue will stick to just about any material...it sticks tenaciously to clothing, shoes, and so on. It is usually easier to clean up after it cools, when it can be sliced or chiseled off. The last residues can be wiped off with alcohol or acetone on a rag. It is 100% waterproof, but continuous exposure to hand oils will make the glue tacky; I've not found it ideal for sealing cord-wrapped handles for this reason.
Unlike most all modern glues, this stuff smells truly pleasant, like a pine forest...my wife has asked me if I was burning incense!
A side question: besides pine-pitch glues, what other natural glues have you used, or heard of being used for knifemaking? Anyone know where to get Laha (used by Nepali Kukhri makers/Kamis), or other exotic adhesive resins online?
Edited March 15, 2012 by Orien M
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