Author Topic: New heat treating method??  (Read 62064 times)

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Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #120 on: August 30, 2019, 06:43:02 pm »
It will come out in time. When we release the dvd and not before. No person has to pay for anything.  No one is bending your arm to do anything. That is your call. You will have to wait like any other person who has an interest. If you do not have an interest well keep your money in your pocket.  The world does not revolve around opinions at the bowyers bar.  Thousands of primitive archers do not worship at the Bowyers bar.  We just wanted to share our concept but i was hoping for a more open minded reaction. Seems some try to dissect each word trying to find fault. Hinging on each word looking for something to prove someone wrong. I am very disappointed with the nature of this forum and will not be back. This is how you think we should treat fellow bow makers. Count me out. Show us what "you" have added to the world of primitive archery. We known you can be critical with words but show me your physical contribution.  No work or experiments? Paul Comstock, Mark St. Louis, and now Keith Shannon has worked very hard to move the use of white wood bows forward. What is your claim to fame. Hero with words. I understand the Title one wants as forum top dog....but tell me your contribution. Chime in, there is no fragile shipping charge for you sharing your vast knowledge here. This is my last post. Sorry it was controlled by snipers looking to make a forum name for themselves.  Someone on this forum even talked about how Billy's facial features looked when shooting his bow and it was said he looked like he was taking a dump.  Really. Forum Rules? We have always give credit to the people that came before us. We just wanted to share our information. Not to be attacked and called fakes and liars . Someone referred to Billy taking a dump..Really. The forums rules are not being applied here equally and  personal attacks are not permitted by your own rules. I have had a subscription to Primitive Archer since the first magazine came out and last i heard Primitive Archer still control this forum. But i am wasting words here and will not  use this forum. Are you happy now it all yours.  This does not help promote a positive attitude toward Primitive Archer Magazine or the sport of primitive archery.. You can debate but personel attacks will not cut it. No need to respond i am not interested . Gone from here.

I would have to disagree, in part anyway, with some of these statements.  Everyone on this board with a passion for this art contributes to our knowledge base.  I myself have learnt many useful tips from members here.  Sniping though, if there was any, do not show the better side of this board.  As to comments on facial expressions, well I've been the recipient of some of those myself and did not take offense...it was true  (lol).  Best not to take oneself too seriously when posting pictures of oneself  :OK
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline Deerhunter21

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #121 on: August 30, 2019, 08:24:16 pm »
It will come out in time. When we release the dvd and not before. No person has to pay for anything.  No one is bending your arm to do anything. That is your call. You will have to wait like any other person who has an interest. If you do not have an interest well keep your money in your pocket.  The world does not revolve around opinions at the bowyers bar.  Thousands of primitive archers do not worship at the Bowyers bar.  We just wanted to share our concept but i was hoping for a more open minded reaction. Seems some try to dissect each word trying to find fault. Hinging on each word looking for something to prove someone wrong. I am very disappointed with the nature of this forum and will not be back. This is how you think we should treat fellow bow makers. Count me out. Show us what "you" have added to the world of primitive archery. We known you can be critical with words but show me your physical contribution.  No work or experiments? Paul Comstock, Mark St. Louis, and now Keith Shannon has worked very hard to move the use of white wood bows forward. What is your claim to fame. Hero with words. I understand the Title one wants as forum top dog....but tell me your contribution. Chime in, there is no fragile shipping charge for you sharing your vast knowledge here. This is my last post. Sorry it was controlled by snipers looking to make a forum name for themselves.  Someone on this forum even talked about how Billy's facial features looked when shooting his bow and it was said he looked like he was taking a dump.  Really. Forum Rules? We have always give credit to the people that came before us. We just wanted to share our information. Not to be attacked and called fakes and liars . Someone referred to Billy taking a dump..Really. The forums rules are not being applied here equally and  personal attacks are not permitted by your own rules. I have had a subscription to Primitive Archer since the first magazine came out and last i heard Primitive Archer still control this forum. But i am wasting words here and will not  use this forum. Are you happy now it all yours.  This does not help promote a positive attitude toward Primitive Archer Magazine or the sport of primitive archery.. You can debate but personel attacks will not cut it. No need to respond i am not interested . Gone from here.

Top forum dog? is that why you think we post?  ??? welp suit yourself.

I think you misunderstand why we are commenting and why we say stuff. we talk to find educated truths and not educated guesses. if one person says that their way is better than others, (Which i'm talking generally)  and no one tries to find out the truth and just guesses, their is a good chance that they could be wrong. Now as what you call "personal attacks" there are some that could be and some that are justified. Facial expressions i would say is justified, because no matter what were doing or what were trying to do, looks do affect the human brain in good and bad ways. Imagine you could say two bows. one glossy, recuved, tip overlays, and all the other frills. then another, exactly the same performance wise and wood wise, very plain with no frills and a OK stain/coating. Which one would you want?

Also when do you say that you are disappointed in us? some of us may have let emotion in, maybe got confused, or just wasn't clear in what they were trying to say. but then who are you to tell us that our mistake is beyond our own worth and that we cant see our mistake and fix it, I would say you have no right to judge me or the people in this thread. we can make mistakes and learn from them and you have the right to point it out in a nice way, but for you to act like you are above us and can tell us that we aren't living our lives right, and that you have the authority to "be disappointed in us."

Their are few things that get on my nerve one is People thinking that their above me and other people. you just hit one that one dead center. You want to leave PA, well that's your choice.
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.

Offline PatM

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #122 on: August 30, 2019, 09:08:41 pm »
To be fair none of these three guys have really active on here at all in a helpful way.   Billy used to be. So to criticize contributions is rather unfair.

 A simple tip of the hat to Marc and then  saying they've expanded on that would have sufficed.

Offline Shannon

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #123 on: August 30, 2019, 09:24:15 pm »
For over a month before Billy's "Fire Dancer High Performance White Wood Bows DVD trailer" on Youtube was recognized by people on this board, we had overwhelmingly great responses.  Then Marc appeared in the comments of the trailer and publicly stated, "it sounds like they are trying to lay claim to something that does not belong to them."  Which is absolutely not true and an extremely bold statement since he does not know the details of what we are doing.  He then immediately came to this board and referring to the trailer stated "some people have no shame."  At this time the munchkins rushed to his side and this board went nasty.  You might take it a little different if the comments and insults from members of this board  were hurled at you. 

Offline PatM

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #124 on: August 30, 2019, 09:34:09 pm »
So you're saying nothing you are doing has any relation to what Marc brought back and expanded on  and therefore he deserves no mention at all?

Offline sleek

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #125 on: August 30, 2019, 09:40:37 pm »
For over a month before Billy's "Fire Dancer High Performance White Wood Bows DVD trailer" on Youtube was recognized by people on this board, we had overwhelmingly great responses.  Then Marc appeared in the comments of the trailer and publicly stated, "it sounds like they are trying to lay claim to something that does not belong to them."  Which is absolutely not true and an extremely bold statement since he does not know the details of what we are doing.  He then immediately came to this board and referring to the trailer stated "some people have no shame."  At this time the munchkins rushed to his side and this board went nasty.  You might take it a little different if the comments and insults from members of this board  were hurled at you.

Those who mind dont matter those who matter dont mind....

I personally dont mind if you were to stop whining and rely on the substance of your DVD to speak for you. It was bad advertising plain and simple. This is reminding me of when a comedian told bad jokes, then got mad at the audience for not laughing, like it was their fault he wasn't funny.

Plain and simple, your advertising isn't well recieved among certain people, your ( not specifically yours ) whining about criticism isn't well recieved by others, myself included. Defend your stance, say your piece, and go on.

You left us with nothing to do but speculate on your DVD with nothing to reference but our already existing knowledge. What did you expect? We aren't exactly a stupid inexperienced crowd here. Inexperienced folks bite on that type of advertising,  dont believe me, sample your supportive crowd, experienced folks may get rubbed wrong. If inexperienced is the crowd type you want, you nailed it. No harm in that, teach them what you have to know, let us others be spared of incompetent whining and bad advertising.
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Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #126 on: August 30, 2019, 09:41:30 pm »
I have little problem with any of this. You want to promote and sell an idea...giddy up. If it has value it will likely do well. If it’s just an attempt at making a quick buck and nothing more... it will flop. We will get to judge the merits of these claims as soon as a few people buy the DVD. As to the intemperate comments on this post, come on. If a few snarky things thrown around here ran you off, you wouldn’t hang too long with my boys.
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Offline Deerhunter21

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #127 on: August 30, 2019, 09:46:57 pm »
i'm with sleek all the way. you tried to bring up a claim (a big claim to that), expected us to believe you without any questions asked so when we asked questions you didn't you didn't answer us with any solid proof, and now your surprised with how were reacting? also, Munchkins? that's how you see us? you see, your seeing us as people that are inexperienced, as people that just follow and copy.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 09:52:19 pm by Deerhunter21 »
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Offline Nasr

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #128 on: August 30, 2019, 09:51:34 pm »
For over a month before Billy's "Fire Dancer High Performance White Wood Bows DVD trailer" on Youtube was recognized by people on this board, we had overwhelmingly great responses.  Then Marc appeared in the comments of the trailer and publicly stated, "it sounds like they are trying to lay claim to something that does not belong to them."  Which is absolutely not true and an extremely bold statement since he does not know the details of what we are doing.  He then immediately came to this board and referring to the trailer stated "some people have no shame."  At this time the munchkins rushed to his side and this board went nasty.  You might take it a little different if the comments and insults from members of this board  were hurled at you. 


 You got overwhelming good responses but when someone criticizes your claims you you don’t like it. I don’t understand why you think Marc shouldn’t have commented and called You out.. Now you insult him after you say you guys always have given him and people before him respect for what they have done. So where is that respect now? Your true colors are showing.The people who insulted you or billy don’t represent all of us. Stop trying to straw man the argument and make it personal. All we said is what we seen from the video has been talked about before. The. We checked your sight and found your method about fire hardening and you claimed that you rediscovered it which is outright bullshit. Which by the way you denied was on your website then you were proven wrong.

Offline PatM

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2019, 09:56:45 pm »
To be fair these guys did not post this on here.  In fact I'd  bet they hoped it would entirely slip under the radar until the supportive crowd had all paid for it.

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #130 on: August 30, 2019, 10:01:41 pm »
Yep. Exactly why I think it is aimed at the newbies.
Liberty, In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum.  Distinctly American Values.

Offline scp

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2019, 10:27:06 pm »
This is getting a little silly. The issue is whether there is a new or better heat treating method. Don't worry too much about how it was presented. So far as I know, I have not seen anything new or better, yet. Still just waiting and trying to remember what is the best we have so far.
 
Believe it or not, there were quite a few hints about the current state of our knowledge so far, here. That's the power of debates. But the presentation of our current knowledge will be much better if we stop referring to vague claims too much.

Is it better to heat the whole bow instead of just heat treating the belly? Is it better to keep the whole bow rather warm after heat treating the belly? How about applying pine pitch or resin? Should we add anything to them, like ashes or mud dust? Should we be applying them during the heat treating or after it? Any constructive answers to these questions?

To keep it simple, first let's just ask ourselves whether we should apply any kind of resin, after heat treating the belly, please.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 08:22:01 am by scp »

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #132 on: August 30, 2019, 11:22:48 pm »
Well I will be surprised,,,if performance is greatly improved...over what bows are shooting now,....seems that Would not be kept a secret,,,Some chronograph results would make comparisons easier,..or validate the techniques positive effects on the wood,..very interesting either way..wouldn't be giving up any secrets to post performance of enhanced bows,,.. )P(

Offline sleek

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #133 on: August 30, 2019, 11:29:19 pm »
Well I will be surprised,,,if performance is greatly improved...over what bows are shooting now,....seems that Would not be kept a secret,,,Some chronograph results would make comparisons easier,..or validate the techniques positive effects on the wood,..very interesting either way..wouldn't be giving up any secrets to post performance of enhanced bows,,.. )P(

I asked about that earlier. I'd like to see what the bows shoot before and after. What they shoot before tells me just how good a buyer these guys are for starts and not making bad bows intentionally just to improve them with heat, to get bigger returns.  Any initial speeds under 160 I wo t take seriously.
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Offline NicAzana

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Re: New heat treating method??
« Reply #134 on: August 31, 2019, 05:19:06 am »
If my comment about Billy’s facial expressions were taken badly, I’m sorry. It was not my intention to ridicule Billy, I was simply trying to poke goodnatured fun at what I still think is a rather silly marketing strategy. I’m holding my opinion on the actual contents of the DVD untill I actually see what its all about. I’ve seen most of Billy’s youtube archery content and respect anyone who’s contributing to spreading the hobby.
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana