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why tonkin bamboo shafts and arrows might fail.
Todd Mathis:
--- Quote from: aaron on October 28, 2019, 01:28:50 pm ---It sounds to me like the bare shaft arrows did not stabilize in flight before hitting the target. In your post on your website, you say that they had stabilized- why do you say that? Some of the language used on your site is not really clear to me. "When I say my ARROWS are tougher than carbon, there are a few things I never considered. I DO NOT MEAN that my SHAFTS are tougher than carbon. Shafts can break quite easily.". I don't understand what youre trying to say here.
the picture shows the arrow perpendicular to the target, but it could have been waggling back and forth and just happened to stick into the target perpendicular.
I think you're setting some pretty high expectations in your marketing. Bamboo arrows break too.
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Fair enough. my arrows are that tough...but not until they are an arrow. What I am learning is that until the feathers are on and the arrow stabilizes in flight, it is just a stick wobbling through the air. Because it is a hollow grass tube, the shear (sideways) stress of it hitting a very hard backstop and not being lined up with the weight behind the head just might not be successful at all. Shafts are not the toughest, just the arrows. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll go look at my website again.
Todd Mathis:
--- Quote from: aaron on October 28, 2019, 01:28:50 pm ---It sounds to me like the bare shaft arrows did not stabilize in flight before hitting the target. In your post on your website, you say that they had stabilized- why do you say that? Some of the language used on your site is not really clear to me. "When I say my ARROWS are tougher than carbon, there are a few things I never considered. I DO NOT MEAN that my SHAFTS are tougher than carbon. Shafts can break quite easily.". I don't understand what youre trying to say here.
the picture shows the arrow perpendicular to the target, but it could have been waggling back and forth and just happened to stick into the target perpendicular.
I think you're setting some pretty high expectations in your marketing. Bamboo arrows break too.
--- End quote ---
You could be right about that. But here is the coincidental info. I have never ever had 3 shafts break in an order on the first day of shooting. I have seen the shafts break sideways through the shaft instead of shattering along the grain when the shear (sideways) stress of pulling one out of a wooden target is too much. ALSO, this is the first time I have sold any to a customer who does bare shaft tuning that I am aware of. So...I put this all up to set realistic expectations.. All I am trying to say here is that I think I found a quick way to break them so that you might want to tune your arrows a different way than bare shaft tuning. Last thing I want is a customer who feels I sold them an inferior product. Thanks for the feedback!
Todd Mathis:
--- Quote from: razorsharptokill on October 28, 2019, 02:51:32 pm ---That was my arrow that broke and yes it was flying nock high. The back side of that piece of foam is VERY ridged. I have stopped using it to shoot at. The fact that the shafts were nock high and the angle of the foam is what broke the shaft. ANY natural material shaft probably would have broken in these circumstances.
Once I got things set up properly I have great flight. These shafts are different than wood. Plainly just a different animal. Foremost, they are hollow therefore lighter. The shafts I have are 50-55 spine cut to 29.5". With a 37 grain box nail inserted(on three shafts) in the tip and a 145 grain tip they weigh just shy of 500 grains.
I say this because to get 10 grains per pound of draw weight like a lot of people like for hunting, you may have to go stiffer if you are going to add weight up front.
I am new to a bamboo arrow so I am going to continue to run them through their paces and see they fit my needs. Over all I really like them so far.
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Thanks for the insight. I am NOT a hunter due to health issues. I am a "range plinker". That heavier weight is excellent info so that people will know if these are the best shafts for them. Alas... nothing is perfect. ;)
Todd Mathis:
--- Quote from: willie on October 28, 2019, 04:25:06 pm ---interesting read....
(from the university)
--- Quote ---The last point is that I have never had a customer use bare shaft tuning on their bamboo order before. My suspicion is that bare shaft tuning may be incompatible with the bamboo I sell.
--- End quote ---
A recommendation you might offer for bareshaft tuning is to start out very close to the target so that the arrows is not too "sideways" when it hits. moving back as the shaft and point weight is tuned to the bow better.
Its easy to stabilize with lots of spiral and more feather than needed. For those that are concerned with minimizing speed loss for longer shots, having a tuned shaft makes more sense as less fletching is needed.
I suspect that many of your customers get by shooting stiffer arrows than needed because their bows are more centershot. The fiberglass bow world seems to prefer tuning the bow, whereas wider handled/natural materiel bows need to have arrows that are finessed a bit more.
--- End quote ---
"Its easy to stabilize with lots of spiral and more feather than needed. For those that are concerned with minimizing speed loss for longer shots, having a tuned shaft makes more sense as less fletching is needed. "
I completely agree...once the shaft has become an arrow, these arrows are tougher'n hell, but apparently not until they are balanced and completed arrows so they stabilize in flight is all I'm saying.
Todd Mathis:
--- Quote from: artcher1 on October 28, 2019, 04:36:31 pm ---Hi Jim, once you know your spine requirement for your bow it's a simple matter of a little math to know what spine to order. Add 5# of spine for every inch over 28". Next, your supplier will have to add 5# for every 1/2" of weight forward of the shaft. For example: you want to build a 40# arrow that's 29.5" long BOP using a 125gr point. You would add 7-8# for that 1 1/2" over the normal starting point of 28", and then say you have 1" of weight forward on the shaft, you would add 5# per 1/2". That's 7-8# plus 10# added to the shaft. So if I've done my math correctly, you would need a 57-58# spined shaft using a 125gr point to achieve a 40# dynamic spined arrow...….Art
--- End quote ---
This is very interesting to read! I assume you hunt? I would love to chat on the phone to learn more about this math. It would be helpful for me to understand better how to build these arrows for a situation I don't fully appreciate. As previously stated, I am not a hunter because going to the woods would be hazardous to me, so I am a range "plinker". If you ever feel inclined I would like to learn more. Feel free to call if you're feeling generous! Cool insight.
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