New batch of Khan's tonkin shafts

[razorsharptokill]

I just got a new batch of 55-60 Tonkin shafts from Todd at Khan's. Over all these shafts look awesome. Very straight and the walls look to be thick. I wanted a heavier spine so I could add some weight up front to increase FOC and over all weight. Looking forward to getting these built and seeing them fly.

[Russ]

does adding weight increase the spine or does adding weight just mean you need a stiffer spine?

[razorsharptokill]

More tip weight decreases dynamic spine but increases FOC. I plan on using finish nails or very thin dowel to the tip. Added weight and strength.

[Todd Mathis]

More tip weight decreases dynamic spine but increases FOC. I plan on using finish nails or very thin dowel to the tip. Added weight and strength.

Good answer Jim.  This is correct.  I know they took forever to get here, but now I have plenty in stock.  This supplier is quite good, isn't she?  Can't wait for photos!!!

[Todd Mathis]

does adding weight increase the spine or does adding weight just mean you need a stiffer spine?

If you have two arrows which are identical in all other respects, except that one is heavier than the other.  The heavier arrow will fly stiffer.  But this is very difficult to quantify because of so many other variable.  I have never seen any difference in arrow groups unless the weight difference is greater than 5%...but that is just an observation.  I have not tested this hypothesis.  There are so many variables that it is hard to design a trial of this.  I sell my arrows to be within 20 grains from highest to lowest weight across the 12 arrows for this (and other) reasons.  Hope this helps.  I have never heard complaints doing it this way, but that doesn't make it gospel.  Todd.

[razorsharptokill]

To get to 600+ grains I insert a finish nail into the tip and use a 160 grain point or broadhead And left them full length. I hope to hunt Pronghorns in Wyoming next August with this setup.

[bownarra]

Do you get your shafts from tiger?
I got a few thousand a while ago and the measured spines were quite far off the mark and I do wish they wouldn't sand the nodes so far. Most are good but the odd one broke at the nodes when final straightening because they were too aggressively reduced.

[razorsharptokill]

These shafts are from Khans arrows (Todd Mathis). So far I am very pleased with them.

[Todd Mathis]

These shafts are from Khans arrows (Todd Mathis). So far I am very pleased with them.

You know, I just realized why you like those nails!  It really is a clever idea.  I went about solving this differently, but I have to say I never thought to do it the way you do with those nails...I think...
Let me see if I understand...If you add weight up front, you have a higher FOC.  That's nice, but by making the arrow heavier, you are increasing the dynamic spine so that the arrow will fly stiffer.  Then you can put on a heavier head...like a bigger broad head.  Am I getting why you guys are using nails?  Why not just put a heavier head on to start with?  I assume you also using the nail to strengthen the spine up front for penetration?  Gotta say...I'm looking forward to OJAM.  Hope some of you guys are going.

[Pat B]

Todd, adding the nails to the front of the arrow will decrease the dynamic spine as does adding a heavier head. It doesn't stiffen the spine. If he added something to stiffen the center of the shaft like a bamboo skewer with very little added weight he would increase the spine. Most of the bending of the shaft when shot is in the center 1/3 of the shaft so by changing the bending of the center of the shaft you change the dynamic spine.  Adding weight to the front, whether it be a heavier head or a nail or both will decrease the dynamic spine.
The dynamic spine of the shaft is increased or decreased in 2 ways. Whether by adding or subtracting weight or adding or subtracting length beyond the standard you can change the dynamic spine.

[razorsharptokill]

That is why I bumped up to a stiffer shaft so I could add weight up front and not have too weak of a spine. The hunting arrows I have built so far have a 30ish grain nail and a 160 grain broadhead bringing the total weight to right at 600gr.

[DC]

Has anyone ever put a nail in the back? Would it stiffen the spine?

[Pat B]

DC, it might stiffen the spine but you want the weight forward in an arrow. Adding a nail to the rear would change the arrow dynamics but not necessarily positively.

[TSA]

yes  as Pat said, weight in the rear  will stiffen the dynamic spine, but at a large cost to performance .
you would lose FOC %, and also negatively effect flight characteristics.
 i think a nail might be excessive, when fine tuning arrows, just the mass of the fletching or a vinyl cap wrap can make a significant difference.

[razorsharptokill]

I hope to run one through a deer tomorrow morning!