relative limb length

[Yooper Bowyer]

What does positive tiller mean? 

[bassman]

My tiller tree comes to an apex, and the bow sits on a one eighth strip of leather on the bow's riser . 60 inch bow mark 30 inches to the middle. Stiff limb goes on the bottom. Measure up one ,and an eighth inch, and cut a radiused arrow shelf  as close to center shot as I can ,and still be safe. Then cut a place for my thumb,and index finger on the grip. That is my left hand grip.Then adjust string nock to bare shaft arrow tune with a properly spined arrow, and you can tune the bow to the arrow with the depth of your arrow shelf. When the bow is finished measuring from the arrow rest the top limb is   shorter than the bottom limb, but the bow is balanced through the draw cycle , and shoots the way it should by my standards.

[Dances with squirrels]

Pat, you obviously didn't understand Dean's article. No biggie. Most didn't. I sure didn't, at first.

I've been working my bows this way for over 20 years, and a while back decided to more deeply study and test bows and how tiller/balance affects things. My goal is to dispel myths, misunderstanding, confusion, and conflicting info that surrounds it, if only my own  I may start a thread or write an article or webpage about it when I'm done, or maybe it'll all just be for my own peace of mind. We'll see. I do seem to encounter resistance when I address the topic in these forums. Maybe its my delivery. Lol

I have a long list of questions and theories to address throughout my testing, but if anyone here would like something rooted out... feel free to mention it and I'll try to address it.

I revisit Dean's article on occasion because I want to know if he was all wet, and so far from what I've seen, he's been right, and the deeper I dig, the more little truths jump out at me from his words... words that seemed almost cryptic to me the first time I read it. He told me once to do my own testing, and question everything and everyone, him too. That's what I'm doing. And trust me, I question myself and my own methods and results more than all others combined.

I think recently I've found some things that may help us all understand, but I have a lot of testing to do yet. This has already turned into something bigger than I thought it would be, but I'm going to keep chipping away at it for a while.

[PatM]

I think you just interpreted it the way you wanted to.

 The article seemed more written to make people think   and draw their own conclusions.   I do think Dean was trying to say what you're trying to say but still not quite getting to the point.

 People will probably want to see a slo mo video of your bow on the tree and a slo mo in the hand, as well as slo mo releases.

 Otherwise you're basing it more on feel and what you think is happening.

[maitus]

   Does the hook on the string mimic a hand drawing the bow?  I've never seen a tiller tree with a top shaped like a palm and a hook mimicking a drawing hand.

The clamp on the top of my tillering tree mimic the hand. This clamp can spin on bearings ...Don't look at tiller ...

[Dances with squirrels]

Hmmm, geeze, I have some equipment, but no slow mo video capability. Ok, I'll think about that. I do have an accelerometer to measure handshock and some load cells in the string to compare limb tensions.

I've been digesting bow making articles, books, websites, and such for some time trying to learn all I can, and it's weird how the subject is obviously avoided, or only mentioned in passing, or they get right to the brink of the good stuff and bail out, or use the opportunity to justify their own methods and theories, or divert to conventional wisdom. That's not what we need.

[HH~]

Not much different than any goo glass recurve really. The center is usually center or just a tad higher than middle of bow. You build limbs and come in heavy on both limbs and shoot it in sanding limbs to time and reduce vibration.

Notice how the Ante and this Drake have very similar designs. Good recurve design is good recurve design.

Shawn~

[Yooper Bowyer]

...Don't look at tiller ...

It looks almost like the right outer limb bending more than the left?   

Just kidding, nice bow.

[maitus]

...Don't look at tiller ...

It looks almost like the right outer limb bending more than the left?   

Just kidding, nice bow.

It seems to me that left limb bends more from the center...

[HH~]

Yeah, you got a sideways eyes the pic is taken on 30 degree angle. My limbs are spot on and in exact alignment. There she will sit for the near future.

HH~

[PatM]

The bow Maitus posted, not yours.

[bassman]

Any production glass recurve with an arrow shelf will have a shorter upper limb up to 2 inches when you measure from the shelf both ways, and one eighth of positive tiller, and I own some that have as much as one half inch positive tiller. Still shoot good with string nock adjustment. With no shelf I set the bow up on the tree the same way,and tiller.

[PatM]

Quite a few people also make limbs equal length and have a  slightly longer handle but that still amounts to a longer upper limb.

[maitus]

The bow Maitus posted, not yours.

I didn't post a bow, I posted the tillering tree

[RyanY]

It is rare that I have made or shot a bow where I felt limb balance was a serious issue. Handshock is the thing that comes up periodically but is usually predictable and balance doesn’t seem to be the cause. Maybe for flight shooting and perfect arrow flight this is important but otherwise most bows will make meat whether you made sure it was “perfectly balanced” or not.