TB3 for sinew.

[Parnell]

Lots of good thoughts raised here. And EricK, that is some wise thinking.

Just my thinking...I can’t figure how TB gets into the protein structure of the sinew, though.  For “bullet-proofing” a back I could see it.  When I’ve done hide glue and sinew backs I did one where I used TB to lay down rawhide over it.  The bow was for my young nephew and it broke from poor stringing.  When I salvaged the sinew by soaking it it was usable but the TB layer just sat on top and stripped out in the soak.  It never actually incorporated into the protein layer.

[Yooper Bowyer]

That means that it would be very helpful for moisture protection in %80 humidity.  Thank you Eric, that makes a lot of sense.  If Pearlie wants to chime in I would be glad to hear his opinion, but I doubt he has ever shot a bow with a snake glued to the back. 

[gutpile]

all my hide glue sinew bows that have been waterproofed with snakeskin shoot the exact same as before skin was applied. I ad my skins are applied with TB3.. over the hide glue sinew job.. of course after the sinew has cured a few months..I am in the south so it takes longer for my hide glue sinew jobs to cure.. hide glue definitely cures much slower than TB3... my skin job is ready to trim and shoot in 48 hours.. trim in 24 shoot in 48... I know this for a fact as I have skinned about 5 sinew backed bows I have done.. gut

[PatM]

We're comparing a  matrix of TB and sinew to a matrix of hide glue and sinew, not a light glue layer when it comes to drying and curing.

[BowEd]

Then tell me why horn bow makers don't use TB3 Erik.

[Eric Krewson]

Because they never have, a horn bow is entirely different animal from a sinew backed bow. Some things you just don't do, considering the amount of work in a horn bow, I for one wouldn't "experiment" with a glue that is untested. I have never made a horn bow, so I don't have an opinion on whether TB would work or not.

Why don't you make one with TB and tell us if it works or not, good luck.

I gave away all my sinew a couple of weeks ago to a guy in Cal who couldn't find any, most of it was processed. I am bad to give stuff away if I see a need, I like to help new guys out.

[BowEd]

I know better Erik.It's because TB 3 does not contain cologen.
TB3 has been tested many times for bonding strength.That's not the issue though.It's the shrinking/reflexing and pulling strength of hide glue compared to TB3 and hide glue wins hands down.
Why is it you don't even need to clamp a wood hide glue bond and you have to clamp a TB3 bond?

[Eric Krewson]

It is ERIC

I have seen many people post bows backed with sinew and TB over the years, it must work for them, like I said I haven't done it so I don't know

The question was about backing a wood bow with sinew and TB, how do horn bows fit into the topic at hand?

[BowEd]

The question by him Eric was to hold reflex and humidity and drying concerns dealing with sinew on his bow.

[Eric Krewson]

Until you make such a bow you just won't know, if I were to make one I would have all the reflex induced by heat before I applied any sinew and TB, I don't plan to make one though.

I am not a sinew fan, like I said before, too much work with a minimal return. I don't like kind of  short bows that make sinew shine, all my bows are 62-64", out of the realm of getting any benefit from sinew at my short draw..

I probably snake backed 50 bows, I don't do that anymore either, I sure like the look of unadorned osage.

[BowEd]

Well good for you Eric.Well stated,but we are not putting snake skin on this bow far as I know.Out of context.Your comments are out of your comfort zones for making bows,and in this situation they are'nt for mine.Until you actually put sinew and hide glue to work you will never appreciate its' qualities.I've done TB 3 reflex retaining experiments before with sinew and linen 12 ply string.No comparison to hide glue especially with sinew.The sinew will just lie there with no reflexing using TB3.
I've even used epoxy over sinew putting birch bark on for vapor barrier reasons.I usually use TB 3 for coverings over sinew.Another good vapor barrier.
I am a long bow hunter too but still can appreciate what a short bow will do.

[Eric Krewson]

Oh well, no point in carrying this on any farther.

Here is my last sinew and knox osage bow. It is still in my drying box as a reminder to not use any osage that has side cracks in it even if they work out during shaping, the sinew delaminated the poor quality osage. The other picture is the bow before I applied sinew. I was making a short screamer but the osage failed. Both limbs cracked through and through, I tried filling the cracks with urac and clamping but the wood pulled apart again as the sinew cured.

On the skins I was just mentioning how my preferences have changed over the years, from wide ugly bows to slender straight limb bows to reflexed bows, from sinew bows to no sinew, from snake backed bows to no skins, a ton of bamboo backed reflexed bows and now to all static recurves, just a statement about myself, nothing more. I should have been more specific.

[Bob Barnes]

Eric and Ed...two of the best bowyers I know... seems like you both prefer hide glue/knox gelatin to TB3 for applying sinew?  I have never been able to convince myself that TB3 was good for sinew...BUT I have never shot one of Eds or Mikes bows... I do know how hide glue and sinew love each other though... and taking your time making a bow is a good thing.   

[bradsmith2010]

I like hide glue with my sinew,,   I interpreted Pearls comment as meaning the bow was slow,,  with titebond,

[bownarra]

Eric I made a 64" osage sinew backed recurve that consistantly shot 185fps with 10gpp. Most people would say that it was a waste of time sinewing a bow so long.....anyone who has shot it doesn't think so
There is also this myth that sinew backed bows are seriously affected by moisture and TB would eliminate that....I've used my hornbows in the pouring rain for 2 days straight at the nationals a few years back. The bow was still good enough to win it In fact I didn't notice any difference.....water resistance depends on the finish used and as such you can make a sinewed bow almost impervious to water. At least for a good few days - plenty long enough for any hunt/competition. Just dry it out after your trip.