Author Topic: Know your regulations!  (Read 422 times)

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Offline JW_Halverson

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Know your regulations!
« on: August 25, 2025, 01:32:06 pm »
Most everyone knows that certain materials often used in our craft are fraught with rules, regulations, and laws. I've harped on raptor feathers for years, as everyone knows.

But last week I was made aware of a dire situation a guy got himself into selling snake skins down south. From the very first post he made in Selfbow Nation on Facebook he was marked by a local game warden. They followed him and his posts for several months on various social media gathering evidence. That evidence was taken to a judge and the judge found sufficient cause for a number of warrants. This led to knock on his door and a number of agents presenting him with search warrants due to his illegal sales of copperhead skins. His home and surrounding buildings were all searched top to bottom, every computer owned by the family and all their smart phones were confiscated. He had something like 100 copperhead skins confiscated when the state limit was a total of 6.

They had started with a Facebook post and that led to warrants to track his communications as well as all his financial records. They knew his bank account info, plus all his online transactions like Venmo, Paypal, etc down to every transaction and who it was with. "Trades" where no money is exchanged, like our bow trades, still count, too. If you get anything of value, even good advice, it can be considered a sale. I can see a prosecutor trying to figure out what a handmade osage bow is worth and checking online: Ryan Gill, $2,400. Weylon Olive, $1,700 and up. Those numbers in most states make it a felony.

Didn't have to happen, didn't have to go down this way. He had been warned by someone that also sold snake skins for years that he really needed to contact his state game officials and discuss in depth the legalities of taking and selling animal parts. He just adopted the "yeah, yeah, yeah, it's none of their business" attitude and found it out that this, indeed, IS their business.

They have him dead to rights. It's down to felony charges now. I seriously doubt he earned enough money doing this to afford a high caliber lawyer that can make the state bargain it down to misdemeanors and a small slap on the wrist fine. He's looking at possible jail time and tens of thousands of dollars in fines. Of course, on top of that he'll lose his fishing and hunting privileges for years AND be known to law officials forever as a poacher for money. For however many years he'll likely have parole hanging over his head which means any time of day or night he can get a knock on the door and CANNOT legally say no, much less delay for a moment, search of his home and buildings, vehicle, and person. He is well and truly screwed.

All this could have been avoided by something as minor as an email or phone call to his state game officials. Or....you can be a comedian and try out the funniest line prosecutors and judges ever hear..."I didn't KNOW!"
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline bjrogg

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Re: Know your regulations!
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2025, 05:57:24 pm »
Definitely not a problem anyone would want. Makes me appreciate a bare back bow even more than I already do. I have come to really appreciate a  nice clean bare bow. I don’t really put many skins on anymore. Copperhead’s on Osage sure do look nice though.

I have so many people who think they are doing me a favor dropping off their antlers, turkey feathers and assorted bones. I don’t even know where it comes from or what to do with it. It just gets dropped off. I certainly don’t try to resell it though. And I’m not paying anyone for anything either.

I have to admit though. I don’t know the regulations as good as I probably should. And I probably should ask some questions. Thanks for bringing it to our attention

Bjrogg

A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Know your regulations!
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2025, 10:04:39 am »
After watching a wonderful public area fall into neglect, especially the hiking trails, I used a little hand saw to clean things up a bit on two of the trails. I usually document my efforts online but am keeping mum this time. One over zealous government bureaucrat might target me for trimming a few dead limbs out of the trails and put my head on the chopping block like the above mentioned guy.

I came close on the snake skin thing one time; I gave a selfbow shooting demonstration at a Tn state park, I am from Alabama. Two TN game wardens were watching me shoot; my bow was backed with copperhead skins that I bought from a skin dealer in Texas. Any snake skins are off limits in TN, not so in Bama where I live so I didn't think anything about it. Later a guy told me the wardens were having a serious discussion about the skins on my bow but decided to not make an issue about it. 

   

Offline sleek

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Re: Know your regulations!
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2025, 09:13:12 pm »
Holy crap JW. Thats insane amount of trouble. Ill keep my opinions on it to myself but your warning is one i feel many folks need to read and heed. I didnt know it could get that bad either. I suppose ill be calling my local warden about some road kills I am often tempted to gather.

Most everyone knows that certain materials often used in our craft are fraught with rules, regulations, and laws. I've harped on raptor feathers for years, as everyone knows.

But last week I was made aware of a dire situation a guy got himself into selling snake skins down south. From the very first post he made in Selfbow Nation on Facebook he was marked by a local game warden. They followed him and his posts for several months on various social media gathering evidence. That evidence was taken to a judge and the judge found sufficient cause for a number of warrants. This led to knock on his door and a number of agents presenting him with search warrants due to his illegal sales of copperhead skins. His home and surrounding buildings were all searched top to bottom, every computer owned by the family and all their smart phones were confiscated. He had something like 100 copperhead skins confiscated when the state limit was a total of 6.

They had started with a Facebook post and that led to warrants to track his communications as well as all his financial records. They knew his bank account info, plus all his online transactions like Venmo, Paypal, etc down to every transaction and who it was with. "Trades" where no money is exchanged, like our bow trades, still count, too. If you get anything of value, even good advice, it can be considered a sale. I can see a prosecutor trying to figure out what a handmade osage bow is worth and checking online: Ryan Gill, $2,400. Weylon Olive, $1,700 and up. Those numbers in most states make it a felony.

Didn't have to happen, didn't have to go down this way. He had been warned by someone that also sold snake skins for years that he really needed to contact his state game officials and discuss in depth the legalities of taking and selling animal parts. He just adopted the "yeah, yeah, yeah, it's none of their business" attitude and found it out that this, indeed, IS their business.

They have him dead to rights. It's down to felony charges now. I seriously doubt he earned enough money doing this to afford a high caliber lawyer that can make the state bargain it down to misdemeanors and a small slap on the wrist fine. He's looking at possible jail time and tens of thousands of dollars in fines. Of course, on top of that he'll lose his fishing and hunting privileges for years AND be known to law officials forever as a poacher for money. For however many years he'll likely have parole hanging over his head which means any time of day or night he can get a knock on the door and CANNOT legally say no, much less delay for a moment, search of his home and buildings, vehicle, and person. He is well and truly screwed.

All this could have been avoided by something as minor as an email or phone call to his state game officials. Or....you can be a comedian and try out the funniest line prosecutors and judges ever hear..."I didn't KNOW!"
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline YosemiteBen

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know our regulations
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2025, 11:43:18 pm »
Thanks for the eye opener JW! I don't run into that a whole lot with snake skins but I do with Tribal folks picking up road kill hawks. Always a good reminder!