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Draw Lengths and Arrow Weights

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Wyrda:

--- Quote from: Del the cat on April 24, 2025, 05:30:31 am ---Indeed, do you own experiments, draw your own conclusions.
You may find this post from my blog interesting.
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.com/2011/11/mass-velocity-and-energy.html
Del

--- End quote ---

Thank you del. The relationship between arrow weight and efficiency is well established but I always like graphs. What I am interested in as mentioned, is the relationship between draw length, bow length, arrow weight, and efficiency. For example, we know that a longer draw length stores more energy, but we also know in the case of ELBs, longer bows are more inefficient. So the question is, how fast would a longer ELB drawn to 32", compare to a shorter ELB drawn to 28"? And as I mentioned, I am wondering if the advantage of longer draw length only shows a benefit with heavier arrows, as Joe Gibb's test with relatively light arrows did not seem to yield any benefit drawing from 28" to 30". I have been doing some more research which does seem to support the idea that longer draw lengths are better with heavier arrows in terms of GPP, eg., bows like yumi or Chinese manchu bows with very long draw lengths of 35" or more do very well with arrows of 15gpp or even higher, often shooting them over 170fps . Meanwhile Turkish flight bows optimised to shoot light arrows over 300fps and only have draw lengths of around 28"

I would like to do my own experiments but I don't have the resources right now. This forum has a lot of great info I've been reading but it seems dead now. I assume the warbow scene is still active, is there any place still on the internet for warbow archers to talk that isn't a facebook group?

Del the cat:
Hi, I don't know of any forums that aren't FB based, except this one, but there isn't much heavy bow stuff on here.
I agree with what you are saying about 28" vs longer draw lengths.
There are just so many variables to play with and one of my favourite engineering techniques is to take things to extremes to prove a theory, but with bows this doesn't really work.
Something I mean to try is a long bow but with short working limbs, theoretically the extra string length gives an advantage.
For flight shooting I think most people make their arrows too heavy, but again there are so many variables in the arrow, not to mention finding that elusive clean loose.
Del

sleek:
Del, I've been thinking about the long riser with short limbs too, almost built one a couple years back. If I find the right stave, I probably will do it. It would be a fun experiment.

Wyrda:
That's an interesting thought experiment. I hypothesise it will be slower than a normal longbow design, because a normal longbow does most of the work in the centre and middle, and that means the tips which move the most, can be quite thin and light. On the other hand, with this design the short limbs will have to be wider/heavier because they are doing all the work. And if we compare it to a shortbow, the shortbow will stack more, but because the limbs are moving more for a given draw length, they can also be a lighter, which will probably make it faster. By the way Del, I've been checking out your blog. Since you've got a good setup for doing tests, maybe you could do the experiment for me? E.g., test a warbow shooting at a 32" (or whatever the max draw is), with a 6pp arrow and a 10gpp arrow, and then repeat the test two inches shorter. This should see demonstrate the benefits of a longer draw length and if a heavier arrow is necessary to benefit from it.

Also, I've got another query: I've been reading The Great Warbow by Matthew Strickland, and included is data from a trial shoot, of a 150lb english warbow shooting a variety of arrows. The data lists a 53.6g arrow being shot 360 yards. Give that, I understand, currently Joe Gibbs holds the record shooting a standard arrow 311 yards, this is another outlier that I can't seem to make sense of. I was wondering if you have read the Great Warbow and could offer an explanation? And given that you've done lots of shoots, I was wondering if you could give me an idea of the average sort of range a skilled warbow archer can achieve with a flight arrow?

Del the cat:

--- Quote from: Wyrda on June 13, 2025, 06:33:02 am ---That's an interesting thought experiment. I hypothesise it will be slower than a normal longbow design, because a normal longbow does most of the work in the centre and middle, and that means the tips which move the most, can be quite thin and light. On the other hand, with this design the short limbs will have to be wider/heavier because they are doing all the work. And if we compare it to a shortbow, the shortbow will stack more, but because the limbs are moving more for a given draw length, they can also be a lighter, which will probably make it faster. By the way Del, I've been checking out your blog. Since you've got a good setup for doing tests, maybe you could do the experiment for me? E.g., test a warbow shooting at a 32" (or whatever the max draw is), with a 6pp arrow and a 10gpp arrow, and then repeat the test two inches shorter. This should see demonstrate the benefits of a longer draw length and if a heavier arrow is necessary to benefit from it.

Also, I've got another query: I've been reading The Great Warbow by Matthew Strickland, and included is data from a trial shoot, of a 150lb english warbow shooting a variety of arrows. The data lists a 53.6g arrow being shot 360 yards. Give that, I understand, currently Joe Gibbs holds the record shooting a standard arrow 311 yards, this is another outlier that I can't seem to make sense of. I was wondering if you have read the Great Warbow and could offer an explanation? And given that you've done lots of shoots, I was wondering if you could give me an idea of the average sort of range a skilled warbow archer can achieve with a flight arrow?

--- End quote ---
Hi, I can't test big bows in my garage conveniently and I have no room to safely chrono them outside (The wife won't let me  ;) )
Del

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