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for those who hunt with stone

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Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive:
ok, if you by chance read my post in the hunting pics forum you may know that i have had bad luck hunting with stone points,  for a referance i will include some pics of what i had been hunting with.  so with that in mind, i know stone can kill, no surprise there, but i have some of my own theories on what works and what doesnt. i have done several tests and had enough experience that i can assume a few things. compare them with what you have found and let me know the circumstances
   1-  most of the pictures i see of stone point kills are shot with a laminated bow, which not in all cases, but most of the time have better penetration qualities.
    2- to get an honest punch out of both sides, the arrow needs to miss ribs and any other hard obstruction.
    3- wide points penetrate far less than narrow points
     4- the union between shaft and point is extremely important, but still having a great smooth union doesnt insure good penetration.
       5- the arrow must fly perfectly straight to maximize its energy usage.

ok so,  what i ask of you is an honest answer to your experiences. sometimes we have an image to uphold and dont want to talk about wounding\losing deer and seeming unethical. so if that is the case, send me a pm of your experiences and anything someone would share with me would be between us only.
 
 also, i think the key is to use bird point or very small points to get optimum penetration. unfortunately those points dont meet legal requirements.  but i know we all dont follow all the rules sometimes and i know someone here as shot living deer with tiny points and could offer info to me, and ofcourse if you pm me and confess i will keep your little secret and not judge under any circumstances.
    all i ask for is honest accounts of success or non-success.  so if you have shot five deer with stone points but only actually recovered one, nows the time to share your experience privately with me. im not a game warden or anything like, i just want to hear some or the horror stories or truths behind most stone point hunts to better serve my own purposes.

the bows i have been hunting with are in the 75# range. selfbows, and they are well made. i have plenty experience in making good bows that shoot fast.  so for a baseline, the last deer i shot in montana at 35 yards got a complete passthrough. through ribs in and out and through the meat of one shoulder.  that was with a steel point that i made. but the buck i shot with a stone point at 15 yards only hit the rib cage and only got about 4 inches of penetration off the same bow. the point was dacite, about 7\8 wide and 3"  long. good sharp point with very minimal serrations.

so please share with me your experiences whether one here or in private. im not ashamed to say that i have had failure i just want to know what i am have done wrong.  so please include you bow specs, point specs, yardage, shot placement, hit ribs  etc...... the more info the better  thank you much- Ryan

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Pat B:
I have been hunting for 3 years with stone points but have yet to take a shot. I'll have to pass until I have something to compare. ;)
  Is this your first kill with stone?       A 75# bow and a point with a 3:1 ratio that yours appears to have should be no problem with penetration. I'd say give it another try and see what the results are.
     Pat

Ryano:
It just sounds like you had a run of bad luck to me Ryan. This is my first year hunting with stone points (obsidian) so I'll let you know how it goes.  ;D I bare Shafted each arrow and got them shooting flawlessly before I even fletched them up, I think good arrow flight and shot placement is more important than what the tips made of. I do think the transition of arrow to tip is important, it needs to be as smooth as possible for good penitration. I will say this, I've lost more than one deer with modern archery equipment. It all comes down to Shot placement, no matter what your using. When your shooting at a live moving critter you can never be absolutely sure whether your arrow will hit its mark or not. Live animals don't hold still like a target. No matter how good a shot you are if your a hunter your going to lose a animal or two at some point. It sucks, but its all just part of hunting.  :P

Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive:
thanks guys,  Pat- I have huntd with stone for 3 years now and have lost 4 deer and no recoveries. 1 was at 15 yards the others were under 10 yards, all perfectly broadside.  i dont want to keep shooting deer up with stone and not finding them, so im goin to give up for now. i just want to know from other hunters what they have experienced for my own satisfaction.

Ryano- i agree for sure about arrow flight and point transitions. my arrows all flight great and the transitions are very smooth and tapered. i used titebond to fill in any divots around the sinew and to smooth it all up.

knightd:
I have taken several hogs with stone points. Most of the points where 7/8 x 2" or around that and bows from 50 to 70# had a couple pass thru and some only 8" of penatration. I only lost one hog that ran off through the saw grass. I took one over 400# with a obsidian point and cane arrow 60# bow..It sounds as you are just haveing a run of bad luck.. I have a freind that shoots 65# on a compound and has hit and lost 5 deer and 1 we found 2 days after he shot it. Arrow went in high and did not exit so no blood trail  the deer traveled over 400 yrds..

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