Why are Western Indian bows so short?

[xin]

Amen to every point Jamie made.  I think he nailed it  all the way around.

[YewArcher]

Yes, Jamie good points. I agree about the "eastern woodland bow". I have said that on threds before. If you look at the bows found in what we call the eastern woodlands they varied a lot and there was also a LOT of bows under 60" long some as short as 36" long. Even though there is a TON of documented bows that vary from 36"- 70" long and also vary from Reflex/deflex,risered, recurved, d bow etc......a lot of folks still consider a eastern wood land bow 60+" lon 2" wide and bedn thrugh the handle. If you really study the Easten Woodlan Bows you will find that they are more similar in lenght to the plains bows and west coast bows then they are to what we commonly call "Eastern Woodland bow".

Native American Bows, Arrow & Quivers. Hamm abd Allely. Just a qucik run through some pages:

68", 67" 62", 43", 57", 58", 62", 39", 57", 52", 52", 67", 68", 52", 57", 68", 47", 67", 51", 59", 60", 60", 61", 49", 48", 51", 54", 61", 50", 56", 55", 58", 47", 57", 47", 72", 53", 69", 54", 54". That is all the bows shown is the North East section of that book. You will notice that there is a lot of shortish bows.

Out of 40 Eastern Woodland bows the average lenght is: 56.725" long

Also keep in mind that I chose the North East is the section in the book that has the MOST longer bows. The southe east and medwest have mostly short bows.

Generic term "eastern wood land bow=man height, whitewood, wide, bend through the handle D bow" is very very very generic. That is just something to keep in mind when comparing bows of regions. if we are going to compare them we need to be honest with what they really were, not what people consider them to be. As mentioned above as well. The west coast bows were not all under 40" long sinew backed paddle bows.

Steve

[a finnish native]

not to forget the types of wood that were available. Most east cost bows were made from whitewoods, that are not as good in compression than juniper or yew for example.
Then there is the climate factour. The California region is much dryer than the east coast. This might not matter to us living in moisture controlled houses, but it sure made a big deal to people living in huts etc.  dry have held bows that were shorter than the bows of not so dry areas. Think about the amazon and the plains. The Amazon tribes use long bows and the plains Indians used short bows, though the amazon area is very thick brush and the plains had almost no trees.
The English longbow is quite long, and the Turkish or the Mongolian bow is quite short.
There is no proof that sinew backed bows would have been popular in any moist regions in the world. This is because the sinew backed bow performs it's best when kept in dry conditions. When one backs a bow with sinew (like most of the west cost bows were done) one can use a shorter piece of wood to get the efficiency needed.
And as Tuukka said the accuracy factour mattered none to people that had shot a short bow for their whole life. This can be proved when one reads the notes of U.S officers
that have observed the accuracy of the plains Indians during the 19'th century.

[jamie]

the northwest coast is known for its rainfall and they used sinew bows. a sinewed bow can be used in very humid conditions. abos relied on fire for everything , therefor a fire was always burning at home. ive sat in a wigwam on a nasty humid day with a fire going and its nicer in the wigwam because the fire pushes out the humidity making it more comfortable.  to make a long story short they lived in hot boxes. after a day of hunting go back to the hut hang the bow in the rafters and bingo its ready to go again. i think there are other determining factors as to why sinew was used in some locations and not in others. unfortunately i dont have the answer and to be honest im not looking for it. 

[islandpiper]

uhhhh......because the didn't need 'em long......and.....they didn't need 'em long?   

[D. Tiller]

Actually the NW bows from Western WA were all Yew seflbows with short draw lengths. Most of the sinew short bows came from the Eastern side of the Cascade region where it is drier.

[El Destructo]

There you have it...the Island Man came up with a Good one there....east side of the Cascades....means that most of the Rain fell trying to go over the Mountains....hence a Drier Climate.....good one David......

[hawkbow]

I was told that the plains tribes had short bows for one very important reason.... so they could sneak them out of the TiPi. easier without the wife seeing them.

[El Destructo]

..........................Very Cute Michael.....does your Wife know your so funny................. ........... ......................................

[D. Tiller]

Yep! I live on the wet side. 

[juniper junkie]

another factor in the short bows was the shooting style. if you look at Ishi's shooting style you notice he didnt have a long draw. he only drew to his chin, with the bow more horizontal, minimizing movement in the draw. if you look at the hunting blinds constructed they left little room for  bow limbs. but yet you look at some of the arrows and they were long,  although many had foreshafts, some over 30".

[D. Tiller]

I've been shooting some long shafts and it sure seems to reduce the archers paradox a lot!

[YewArcher]

I find it easier to shoot short bows with long arrows. the longer arrows "seems" to compensate some for the short bows un stabalsied nature.

Steve

[David Long]

Steve's (YewArcher) observation from "Native American Bows, Arrow & Quivers" (Hamm and Allely) that the NE bows were on average 57 inches is interesting. I think Allely suggests that is longer than the average Western Indian bow. From TBBI he says Western Indian sinew backed bows could be as short as 30 inches, averaging between 36 and 44, while unbacked bows could be "50 inches or more". I suppose we all agree there are long bows, and there are short bows  . It is interesting to think about how form follows function. I hunted elk this fall with two long bows, 67 inches and 65 inches. These bows were prefect for small game, to the point that I realized for the first time that I could actually feed myself with these primitive weapons. That was a revelation. At the same time, in thick cover these long bows were difficult when it came to the elk (never did loose an arrow). I'd be all ready by the wallow or water hole, do a little calling etc., wait, then it happened a few times where THEY ambushed ME because the dang bow and willows and branches were tangled just enough to prevent a good setup, draw, and shot. I nearly got run over twice while I fiddled frantically with my big bent stick. Had a NA skilled in the art witnessed any of this they would have busted a gut! Sure, I'm pretty new at this, but I can tell you for certain this is a fun way to learn. It got me thinking- were the Western bows primarily ambush bows, as Traxx suggests? Great info you guys. Dave

[Traxx]

Since,this topic was directed toward Western NDN bows and their lengths,that is what i will  direct my comments toward.We must not forget,that Most all the Native Tribes that used these bows,had a system to measure these bows,to match the archer.Part of these measurements,were concluded to match the style of useing these bows as well.IE drawlength and shooting style.These were not full drawn bows used with a med release or variation of.Hence the shorter lengths.To get the most from a bow,with a shorter draw,the maker must tax the bow to its near limits to acheive best performance.I have personally examined Pit River Stave treese,that show,that a longer stave could just as easiliy have been taken,but were not.Most of the wood from a vast majority of North eastern Ca and the great basin area,was marginal wood for bows,without the aid of sinew.Many of these bows also had a thin backing of sinew,which leads me to believe,that it was more a protective backing than a performance inhancer.As was mentioned earlier also,there were severall styles of bows in this region.I have seen em wide and more narrow,and these being from the same region and people.I was raised in a region,that was a converging area for severall different nations.Maidu,Washoe,Pit River,and Piaute Shoshone people.There are varying length and width ratios of the bows from these people.Some looking like the aptly named Paddle bows to bows that would be referred to as sapling bows.I wonder,if alot of times,it wasnt a personal style preference,just as it is with many today.Or,it could also involve makeing the bow,to the best,that the particular piece of bow wood at hand,would allow.Regardless of these possibilities,i still believe it had to do with the best possible combined performance issues.The old people,didnt have all these new formulas and modern sources of measurements to go by.They developed what they did,because it worked,and worked well.No theories but actuall experience dictated their choices and styles.I hafta trust their Judgement,because they made their living with it.