Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ancient Paths on February 28, 2019, 02:07:40 pm
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Hello again, Thank you all for the warm welcome, I was able to take a look at the black locust tree the farmer cut down just a couple weeks ago it is much larger than 6" maybe around 18-20". Going back tomorrow with a chain saw and then split it up into staves. Anything important to know other then when splitting following any existing checking and painting the ends of the staves? Thanks again.
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Nope. Just get it sawed off longer than you need. Split it. Seal the ends. And start waiting just as fast as you can!
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Great find. Don’t overlook branches those will make a bow too
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That looks more like honey locust than black, however I read there are regional differences in BL so would not be the 1st or last time I was wrong. Center of that log looks punky at the cut, but there looks to be lots of good wood near edges. I have had splits run wild on me, with BL, when the center is not solid or bury several wedges before if figured out what was going on.
Otherwise hope you can park close by. Looks like a lot of wood. That will keep you busy for a while )W(
Mike
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Thanks for the replies, it is black locust for sure the farmer milled one of the other larger black locust and gave me some boards. However I am in South Carolina and I do not believe it is native but it was around an old grave yard in the woods from the early 1800s. Probally brought in and planted long ago is my guess. I’ll post some pics when I get her split. Thanks again
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Hmmm. That looks like honey locust to me as well. Does it have big thorns? The black locust I am familiar with has much thinner sapwood.
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No thorns on this tree. I hope to make it back today to at least cut a 6ft piece and split and paint ends I can get pictures of the graveyard and saplings coming up.
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Not honey locust, honey locust has slicker bark and THORNS!
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Any thorns on the branches? Black locust has thorns on the branches.
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I didn't notice any thorns at all on the large one however there were shoots or sapling that did have thorns on them. Hoping to head that way soon if the rain will let up and i will get good pics.
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The thorns would be on the small outside branches.
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Well things did not go as planned the rain never let up but i still convinced my buddy with the chain saw to go with me anyway. Our plan was to cut two 6 ft sections and load them and get them back under the shed to split. The logs must of weighed 500 pounds easy and we tried with all our might to load them but couldn't. we had already cut them so I got kinda lucky and found a can of krylon spray paint in the bed of my friends truck and decided to spray the ends and come back later. The krylon actually stuck in the rain so hopefully i can get back and split them and load them. How many wedges do you think I will need to split these? Also there were no visible thorns but the pecan farmer said they are 100% black locust and the guy that milled the other one for him said the same. I did read somewhere that the mature trees won't necessarily have thorns but who knows. I didn't get many pics because of the rain but I did get a much better pic of the sapwood heartwood ratio and I think the first pics I posted were deceptive. Thanks again for the help!
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That sure doesn't look like the locust we have here.
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When I went to look for thorns on the top branches they all looked dead and had fungus on them so the tree was dead or dying. Do the thorns come out with the buds and leaves? If so maybe that why no thorns. The wood we cut did not look punky or rotten however the top of the tree where the branches split did look rotten. I’ll get better pics of the tree and it’s stump and the seedlings coming up when I make it back. Sure hope it is black locust. Thanks for everyone’s input
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Very nice looking wood! Looks like a keeper if you can haul it. )-w(
Loganic
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Could it be black cherry?
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Looks like a split first, haul later job. A lot of hard work and sweat but it should be worth the effort.
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Red rot at stump and the bark kinda looks like black cherry, white sap wood with red heart. Pat I think you right
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Yeah, not trying to be argumentative, but that does look a lot like black cherry. I have never gotten hold of a cherry stave to try, and a lot of guys seem to dislike it, but Tim Baker mentions loving it as a bow wood in one of the TBB volumes. I would make some bows out of it even if it isn't black locust. You might want/need to back them.
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You asked how many wedges....IF that was my project i'd bring all I have(think I have 8). But I think 6 would work if the grain is good inside. You could also cut a few hardwood wedges on sight if needed. I'd work on the smaller diameter one first, it should go a smidge easier and should give you an idea of what kinda fight the larger one will give you. Hopefully the growth rings in the inner hartwood will not separate where they look to be cracked while your trying to split the log. After you get that 1st split done things should get easy. you could always rip in half, or curf with a chain saw, depending on equipment. Then split from that point.
Your gonna get a work out with this project :) But sounds like your having fun. Good luck.
Mike
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I am pretty sure its either black locust or honey locust. First pics will be of other stumps and shoots then the tree in question. If the 6 ft tall stump is black locust it should be pre seasoned for me:)
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tree in question again it is a dead tree and the top limbs are rotten is why I suspect no thorns.
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more of tree
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Well, that definitely looks like black locust now! Either way, it should split "relatively" easily compared to some woods (elm for one). It will still be a good bit of work. If you have a couple of long pry bars, it can help with those first couple of splits. Good luck! You should get some nice staves from that trunk. For BL, I always remove the sapwood and seal the back as soon as the bark comes off. Opinion may vary on that step, but I had bad drying checks develop the one time I didn't do it.
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Awesome! thank you all for helping! I don't want to deepen the mystery but the 6ft stump with the thorn coming off I believe is black locust comparing it to online pictures but if you look closely at the thorns on the large stump they resemble honey locust. It is possible I guess that both were growing close to each other. The bark on my large tree resembles the bark on the stump with the 3 prong thorns. Its possible the large tree is honey locust and the other 6ft standing stump is black locust but who knows. Im going to cut that standing stump with the thorn coming off and compare the color inside to my large one. Either way Im making it all into staves. Look closely at the thorns in this pic. Also could i cut the large one in half with the chain saw and then just split the rest? Thanks!!
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The shoots with the thorns and compound leaves on the 6' stump is black locust, the other one isn't I don't think. Unless the other one is locust I wouldn't waste my time splitting it. Dead standing trees generally don't make good bows if they make a bow at all.
Even though the 6" locust stump is seasoned you'll still have to give it plenty of time to dry. Wood laying on the ground or still connected to the ground by it's roots is still taking up moisture even if it is dead.
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Ok awesome! The bark on my big dead tree is idienticle to the large stump however I can not find the stump this tree was cut from as I think it is up under a large pile of cut trees. Thank you all for the input and sorry about the bad first pics. When I get it split I’ll post some more pictures. Thanks again!!
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Do you think the big stump with the thorns is black locust? That stump is the one he milled into lumber. Here is a pic of the lumber
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If that twig with the compound leaves and thorns are on the 6' stump then yes it is locust.
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Once again not a great picture but the short stump has thorns coming up that have thorns coming off thorns which makes me think that one is honey locust. The one with leaves coming out the thorns is not on either stump but it’s close by. The tall stump has thorns similar to the one with leaves so I’m sure it’s black locust so at least I’ll have a few staves that are difinatly black locust.I’m headed to Brevard in mid May for my 8 year anniversary with my wife and I will drop a stave off to you for your help. I’ll pm you before I head up. Thanks again!
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I have never seen a black locust with anything close to red heartwood. Everything I’ve cut had a dark greenish brown heartwood that dries to a creamy brown.
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Here is a better picture of the heartwood.this one was beside the more red looking one in my phone. It is also soaking wet from rain. Maybe its honey locust instead of black or either my picture is deceptive. Ill get better pics when I split them and compare the large one to what I know is black locust that has the thorns on it. Thanks again!
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That is not black locust! It really looks more like black cherry and not at all like black locust.
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To clarify the large tree has bark identical to the short stump with all the thorny shoots. Black cherry bark does not match how this bark looks and black cherry dose not have thorny shoots around its stump. Pics of different growth rings first black locust second honey and then the black cherry. thanks google!
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Well, you believe what you want. I've been dealing with locust for almost 30 years. My first 25 or 30 bows were made with locust, some I bought as fence rails, some I cut myself. The tree with the reddish heartwood is not locust.
You can't always go by the bark. As a tree grows the bark changes, depending on where the tree is growing can make changes to the bark.
If you don't want to believe folks that have dealt with different bow woods why do you ask?
I'll leave it at that.
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Sometimes pics can be deceptive, especially with specific colors. But just goingnoff that pic I would say that looks nothing like the black locust that I’ve dealt with. Heartwood is usually almost green looking on the stuff I’ve dealt with. My guess would be You’ve got either black cherry or mulberry, more likely black cherry.
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A good, clear, close up pic of the end grain would tell for sure if it was black cherry since it is diffuse porous.
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Back to your "how many wedges" question...2 steel wedges will be fine. But bring 4 wooden wedges along to act as followers. Use the steel wedges on the leading edge of the split and leapfrog them. But then feel free to use the wooden wedges following up behind to help keep things moving along. Even a soft pine wedge from a 2x4 can help, though hickory, ash, maple, osage etc will give you more usage.
Good luck, you got this far and there is no sense not splitting things out and getting on with the wait and cure process. If it turns out to be something other than what you want, so what? Make bows, not excuses!
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Ok, thanks everyone. For the record I never asked for help To ID the wood untill you began to question it. I know nothing about black locust or black cherry but what I do know is the pecan farmer that owns the land and the trees told me it is. The man that milled the lumber for him did not question whether it was or not. I’m not trying to be argumentanative but I am only trying to make sure it is or is not locust before I put in the labor to split it. We know for a fact that black locust is growing all around from the picture with the thorns and leaves so I sure hope the pictures are off but I know for sure the standing stump is black locust by examining the thorns so at least I will have a few good locust staves. if the rain lets up I will have clear pictures today. I have no problem with being wrong about it And sure don’t want any bad feelings from anyone. Pat B if it is locust or cherry I would love to bring you a stave from it when I head to Brevard in May if you would like.
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Pat B I think your expertise was correct. I called the farmer and asked about if it could be cherry and he said he did mill a cherry out that spot also. He pointed to the one In question and told me it was locust but I think he was mistaken. He did say there was a locust on the ground though and I think it may be the one laying beside it seen in a couple of my pics. Smaller diameter and grey bark. I think you saved me from a lot of work. I’ll post pics later when I cut them all. Thanks again!
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There are no bad feelings here. We are all here for one reason, to help others build wood bows.
If the reddish colored log is anything but locust it wouldn't be worth trying to get a bow out of it. Any wood, standing dead or laying on the ground would already have been infected by fungi unless it were locust, osage or possibly yew(I'm not that familiar with yew). Maybe the pecan farmer would let you have some pecan for bows. Pecan is a hickory(Carya sp.) and does make good bows but you will want fresh cut pecan to start with.
I appreciate the offer of a stave but I have more bow wood than I'll ever be able to work so Thank you but no Thank you.
Where do you live? I think it would serve you well if you plan on continuing with your pursuit of building wood bows to get a tree ID book and familiarize yourself with the trees that typically make good bows. Your local Cooperative Extension Service will have Tree ID booklets for your area or the Audubon Society's series on trees will get you on the right track.
Also, it is a lot easier to ID trees after the leaves come out.
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Thanks Pat! The pecan farmer did just drop a lot of pecan trees but I have a nice pignut on some of my land I plan on harvesting in the next few weeks I thought would be more worth my effort. I live in Lexington SC and have a bunch of hunting land in Bamberg SC where my pignut is.
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Wait til the leaves are out before cutting the hickory to insure the bark will peel off easily. Be sure to seal the ends and the backs of the staves you split out.
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Thanks everyone. The locust was a bust. The only black locust that was left out there other than saplings is a 8” wide log that’s only 54”. I only draw 24” but figured I needed 60” of stave. Any style I can make 54” long that will give me a 24” draw? Or maybe back with rawhide? The log I cut was grayish green with hardly any sap wood and I discovered the stumps he must of milled the lumber from.
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You could cut the 54" locust and make billets to do a spliced in the handle bow or trade to someone for a stave.
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Well I just split it and a lot of it is rotten. Thanks for your patience with me and at least I know more now than I did. I’ll post pics in a little while but at this point I don’t feel like trying to save any of it.
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Here is the log I cut and split
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stumps i was to late on. I now see what y'all are talking about on the black locust.
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The spalting(discoloration) is fungi, rot. Might get some nice knife handle scales or tip overlays or even bow handle risers out of that wood but not bows.
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Thanks for the help! Guess I will focus on harvesting that pignut.
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Thanks for the help! Guess I will focus on harvesting that pignut.
I have turned out a few nice pignut hickory bows! In our dry climate up here in the Dakotas. it is every bit as snappy as osage or yew!
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Thanks for the encouragement, it’s very humid where I am but hopefully I can seal the bows well. I’m working on a mockernut right now. Waiting for it to season a little more before tiller. I am determined to find some Osage or locust. They are not native here but can be found around old homestead and graveyards. Thanks for all the help and from saving me a lot of work on that cherry. At least I didn’t get it all split and then find out. Thanks again everyone!
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One last question, how hard would it be to transplant the head high saplings onto my land and I read that locust can grow 26ft high in 3 years. Is this true and will it be worth my time to transplant? Thanks again.
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Now would be the time to do it. Depends on how long it was out of the ground though as far as survival. Locust sends out runners and will colonize if allowed to.
You may be able to get locust seedlings to plant. Check your Cooperative Extension Service. It's used for erosion control.
Also, you're not going to get good bow years with 3 years of growth. Ten to 15 years maybe.
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Thanks again Pat B!