Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Flight Bows => Topic started by: Badger on February 06, 2015, 12:29:33 pm
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I am all ears in this one. Assuming many of the shoots might be very small affairs involving only a few shooters it may not be practical to rent expensive surveying equipment. One method I was considering was laying out a center line at 90 degrees to the shooting line using a 100 yard tape measure with distance markers at the stakes. One person could carry a squared site down the center line while another individual would hold a flag at any arrow to be measured. by placing the square on the center line and sighting out to the flag pole we should be able to maintain accuracy of about 1 foot at 50 yards from center line. This method would automaticaly triangulate the shots with no calcualtions. Suggestions here are welcome as this will be a major issue.
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Laser range finder? We used 2 for our warbow shoots. They claim to be very accurate.
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That is the ideal way, instead of triangulating the shots just use an out of bounds. I have one bit it seems to be unreliable. Mine was about $200.00. It does pretty well out to about 300 yards and then it becomes iffy.
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I haven't tried my new laser rangefinder in earnest yet, but I've just finished my 35# Hazel flight bow and got some promising result (a couple at 165fps, one at 170!). I'll post here tomorrow, but it's on the blog if anyone can't wait.
I'm hoping to shoot it for distance on Sunday. I aim to take a sheet of steel plate from the back of an old cooker to leave upright on the shooting line, as a laser target. walk out to the arrow then measure back to the steel sheet.
I'll report back. Mind I've got the sniffles and it may be cold and I'm an old softy cat ::) so I may just curl up in the warm instead.
Del
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I know a few surveyors so I think I can get the job done
Having said that made me think they use satellite technology, and there is a cell phone app that works the same way so as anyone played with it yet ?
Maybe the cheapest way going if it gives us the accuracy we settle on
I know the new farm equipment is ran off of it now and they claim good accuracy with it.
I will try to talk to my son about it he is in to all that stuff ( its his job to maintain the farm equipment for the tristate area )
Even so I think we should have a standard for hand measure like Steve opened us with just because it will allways give us a fall back plan
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I would like to try and get it within 12" accuracy if anyway possible and easily understandable.
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We mostly use rangefinders :)
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I plan to lay out pairs of stakes parallel to the shooting line at 50 yard intervals, with bright fluorescent twine stretched between them. Each line will be clearly labeled 50, 100, 150, 200,etc. I have an old surveyors transit I can use to ensure the yardage lines are square to the shooting line. The stakes will form a landing area grid 50 yards wide. I probably won't have to go past 500 yards if I keep it to primitive and modern non-flight bows. Arrows can be quickly measured within an inch or two of the nearest yardage line by using a steel surveyors tape. Layout of the yardage lines and measurement of the distances should go pretty fast with 2-3 people and a pair of radios.
Alan
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I like that Allen, an old transit can be purched very cheaply.
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Surveyor's ropes are excellent for measuring distances. They are made from fiberglass and will not stretch or expand very much due to weather/temp changes. I saw one for about $63 on grainger. 100 meters. That's what I'm going to use when I set up my range... whenever that happens. ::)
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Jack, thats what I currently use. If I am on a level surface I use my wheel that I roll along or a combination of both. I like the tape to lay out a course and the wheel for the shorter measures when I am working alone.
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I've used wheels and they are OK on asphalt but really loose accuracy on grass or vegetation. When I was recording telephone cable distances (for a cable TV company) there was a built-in error of 10% assumed for wheels and range finders. I'd never use anything but tapes if I wanted accuracy. :)
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I would never consider using a wheel for anything requiring accuracy.
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I like the tape to lay out a course and the wheel for the shorter measures when I am working alone.
Why would you use a wheel for shorter distances?
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Just so I don't have to lay out a tape.
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:)
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Its less accurate, but I'd pace it. I've got my pace count down pretty well.
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Its less accurate, but I'd pace it. I've got my pace count down pretty well.
Does it go 1,2, 3 ,4 etc? ;D
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12.5 paces per chain
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Maybe I'm reading this wrong but are we talking about measuring from a right angle from the shooting line or from the shooters position?
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Jules, I like the right angle method presently used but as long as we all do it the same way it wouldn't be that important. Not a huge difference with a 50 yard wide field.
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How do we figure in the wind or is it just noted ?
I am not sure there is ever an hour of no wind on this flat ground here .
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Buckeye, good point. Currently they simply use whatever wind to the advanatage of the shot. I have never liked this. I am working on a go no go type windsock where if it is on no go records would not count or they would be lableled as wind aided. I would think about 10 mph would be a reasonable number to shoot under. Might need some statistical info here to make a good call on a fair wind.
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Wind measurer in the officials kit then? :P
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Thats would be my rcomendation. My opinions on things have no special or stronger influence on what we settle on. I do plan to argue them but will remain open to what the majority is in favor of. We may start with a preliminary trial year to make a few adjustment if needed in rules and such. It really should not be neccessary though.
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I can try to provide some history on the wind speed debate. It is not a new idea. The wind factor has been debated numerous times in the last 100 years, and I am sure it was debated in the 1000 years before that among the Turks. I will summarize why it hasn't gained traction up to this point in time.
1) The majority, if not all the top record shots have not taken place in high winds, regardless of wind direction. High winds tend to be very turbulent wreaking havoc on longer arrow flights.
2) A wind gauge at ground level doesn't necessarily indicate the wind conditions higher above the ground. I've shot in winds blowing hard in the opposite direction 100 feet above the ground. Unlike the fastest car events, we are dealing with three dimensional space with our arrows.
3) A wind gauge says nothing about one of the biggest weather-related influences on long distance arrow flight, which is upward and downward thermals.
4) We have no control over the weather, so we are just introducing a layer of complexity to the event that will lead to potential delays and cancellations. Either the conditions are safe for shooting, or they are not, and we don't shoot.
In the past, we have decided to take an early lunch break if the conditions are absolutely dead. Instead, I would favor shooting more rounds rather than sit tight and try to second guess the weather.
:)
Alan
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I wondered about that Alen
Thanks
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Good point Allen, I have always heard regular flight distances do better on calmer days while broadheads tend to benefit more from the wind. I would go along with just ignoring it.