Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: artcher1 on December 07, 2013, 11:24:54 am
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Marc recently set me a few dogwood and meadowsweet shoots to play with and here's the end results of a couple I finished out this morning. I had long forgotten why I didn't particular like dogwood but was quickly reminded once I got started. Stuff is stubborn and very difficult to straighten once seasoned. Meadowsweet, on the other hand, is very easy to straighten. Spine is kind of light for it's mass so finished weight will be higher than that of the dogwood.
These seem to be well seasoned shoots but I'm going to put 'em back for a couple of weeks and see how well they hold their initial straightening...........Art
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Look pretty straight what do you use to grease them with.
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No grease was used Rob, only a propane torch.
In another discussion Marc was telling me that his shafts, although well seasoned, didn't want to stay straight. I thought this strange so Marc sent me a few to play around with. I had forgotten about how hard the dogwood was in this regard and is the main reason I don't use the stuff anymore. It makes for a heavy, hard hitting arrow, once you do get 'em straight, but it takes patience in getting 'em that way.
I checked this morning after yesterday's initial straightening and the dogwood had crooked somewhat. Meadowsweet, no change. But you really don't want to read a lot into the initial straightening process because of MC. Next session will tell me more. Besides, a little crooking is a good clue as to the orientation of the shaft to the bow.
Here's a dogwood hunting arrow of mine. Dynamically spined 45/50# and 28" long, it's weight is 631 gr. About the limit in weight I want to shoot in 40/45# bows............Art
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coooooooooooooooooooooool!
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I only made a few red osier dogwood arrows but I had no problem keeping them straight. I still have one I made 6 or 8 years ago that is still dead straight.
I've not tried meadowsweet but I have heard it makes good arrows. It is a native Spirea, both in Canada and the US.
If anyone can make a good arrow from these shoots you can, Art. ;)
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I think good selection to begin with goes a long way with making great shoot arrows Pat. But alas, I general have to work with what's given to me, so I do the best I can. :)
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Art, do you have any secrets to keeping your shoot arrows straight? I heat and correct mine several times before ever fletching and shooting but seem to have a good percentage of them develop curves again later down the road.
Looking at your pics though I must admit your yours look much straighter than my best efforts.
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Art, do you have any secrets to keeping your shoot arrows straight? I heat and correct mine several times before ever fletching and shooting but seem to have a good percentage of them develop curves again later down the road.
Looking at your pics though I must admit your yours look much straighter than my best efforts.
No secrets really. I try to take a common sense approach when straightening. First, any shafts keep in the shop is going to have a high MC. Actually that helps with the first heat straightening job, especially with those stubborn bends. Then I bring them in the house where the RH is lower and let them sit for a week or so. If they stay straight I'll then finish them out. But if any shows any sign of crooking I'll re-straighten and repeat the process. I think this is one step most people miss. They get in a hurry and finish their arrows up not realizing that some will re-crook later on. Simply put, DON't make up an arrow until you're sure they'll stay straight. A good finish, and just as important, proper storage when not in use...........Art
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Nice shafts
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Thanks guys............Art
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Thanks for the info Art. Plan to work on my arrow making skills a little this winter and appreciate the tips.
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One thing I like to do, and it really makes straightening a little easier, is to leave the bark on for the first two months. This holds in a certain amount of moisture which creates a steaming effect inside the shoot. Then scrape the bark off and reheat/straighten again. Reducing the diameter of the shaft at this point requires less effort also. Well seasoned shoots can be a bear to work with sometimes.
From this point on it's a waiting game. Takes about a year or so before you get a good responsive arrow from shoots. But you can, in that time, get 'em out and do some more straightening. Once they stay straight, you're good to go...........Art
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Here's that second dogwood Marc. This was the easy one ;D...........Art
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Nice work, do you temper them too?
dp
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I suppose they do get tempered to a certain extent from the propane torch I use to straighten them Bowtarist. I try to get the shafts as hot as possible without scorching them. But it still happens. That's why I use a burn pattern sometimes to dress 'em up ;D.........Art
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Nice looking arrow. Do You make Your own Points?
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Nice looking arrow. Do You make Your own Points?
Yes, I do make my own trade points from old circular saw blades Mohawk. Here's a few patterns I use.........Art
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Nice. I have been using some old barrel hoops I found on My property. Heat them red and then quench in oil. File and strop edges. Nice looking points. I'll try and dig up a way to post pics of mine..
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Love to see your points Mohawk!
OK, I have the initial straightening done on those shoots that Marc sent me. Going to put 'em back for the time being and see if I can, over time, keep 'em straight. Generally, during the selection process, I'd have only selected a couple of these shafts for arrows. But since this is more or less an experiment, I'll finish 'em all up and see what I come up with.
Here's a pic of their initial straightening. Two dogwood are on the right. A couple of the meadowsweet appear scorched badly, but what you're seeing is mostly bark.........Art
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Here's a set of sourwood I started this past summer. Shoots were well seasoned to begin with so little if any additional straightening was need. I checked them yesterday and found only one shaft that needed tweaked.
Once I finish these up I have no doubt that they'll stay straight. For anyone having trouble keeping they shoot arrows straight, slow down, make sure your shafts will stay straight to begin with, then you will have confidence that they'll stay that way once finished into arrows............Art
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Being well seasoned makes a big difference as to whether your shoot shafts stay straight. I have made arrows from sourwood shoots that were only 3 days off the tree by force drying under the wood stove. they were very dry but not seasoned but it didn't take long before I was straightening them again. >:( Like bow wood, wood for arrows needs to be well seasoned for make quality arrows.
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Five days off the stump Pat. 8)
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My favorite pic of you arrows, Art. 8) That one crooked arrow won the ATAR shoot didn't it?
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That was a club shoot Pat. Good enough score to best all glass and wood bows that day...........Art
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For Nate:
I use a propane torch for my heat source. Before I reduce the shafts I get the shafts really hot (I use cotton gloves to keep from burning myself) and do some initial straightening by hand. Then I'll reduce their diameters. Then working short sections at a time, I'll reheat and use a ceramic power line insulator to burnish down those stubborn areas. Here's a pic:
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I think good selection to begin with goes a long way with making great shoot arrows Pat. But alas, I general have to work with what's given to me, so I do the best I can. :)
+1 for any shoots!
I have never done this but hear if you scratch 3 grooves the full length of your shaft after straightening they will never change. Has anyone tried this and can share your experience?
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When you hear or read things like that Dan you should do a little experimenting and draw your on conclusions, cause you'll get all kinds of opinions about this.
I have tried the grooves. But not for the purpose of straightening. My goal was to achieve a lighter spined arrow but still maintain good hunting weight. And this was before I ever read of grooves for straightening. Once you have a good understanding of what it takes to keep a shoot shaft straight, well, the groove theory for straightening purposes really makes no sense.............Art
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ARCHER thats the same reasoning you see lighting groves in old indain arrows.
The were to heavy spine so they lighten the stiffness by cutting in the groves not to keep them straight.
I've made dogwood arrows for going on 18 ,20 years. I've made and used everything I could get my hands on but dogwoods local and theres millions of shoots just where I'm at.
SO I CAN FIND NO WRONG IN IT.
MEADOWSWEET is really light to light for me for a hunting arrow.
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After letting the shafts set for a couple of weeks I noticed they needed some extra tweaking here and there. Mostly on the nock/small end. If these shafts were made into arrows right after initial straightening, I would be getting some funky flight no doubt.
Key to making and keeping shoot arrows straight, is to make sure they stay straight before ever fletching.
That's your common sense lesson for the day ;D.............Art
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Hey Art
All I know about Lightning Grooves is they seem to show up naturally when I scrape the bark of of shoots with a piece of chert !
Just food for thought !
Thanks for passing on your experience with arrows !
Don't know of anyone better for the job !
Take care.
Guy
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Thanks for those encouraging words Guy.
Yeah, I know what you mean about those lightening grooves, older we get, the more that happens ;).
You take care as well..........Art