Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: Apprentice on January 01, 2010, 10:58:09 pm
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Hello, my name is Jonathan and I am a long time fan of archery. I have woodworking experience in other areas and have decided to take up bow building as a hobby. I was hoping to get some tips on some essential tools neccesary for bow building. I have read up om bow building and I feel ready to give it my first attempt, but first I need to get the appropriate tools.
Some tools I've come across for removing wood are:
The Stanley surform, spokeshave, drawknife, nicholson rasp and wood planes.
Unfortunately I do not have a bandsaw, but I do have a high quality jigsaw, which I believe ought to be capable of roughing out a bow. However for the tillering process, I could use some tips on which tools I should get.
I was thinking of buying a surform and a spokeshave, what are your opinions?
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i have a spokeshave, and i hate it.but i also dont really know how to use it and i also haven't given it much of a chance. as for the surform, i have one also and it helps me with my floor tillering and some of the long string. i dont have experience with drawknives, but i hear it takes practice to use, so i would recommend a good hand plane. as far as rasps go, the nicholson 4 in hand is pretty good, but i dont find it takes enough wood off, so i got a big coarse bastard rasp. i would also suggest cabinet scrapers for tillering.
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well all i use are
draw knife if i need to remove bark and chase a ring
bandsaw for cutting out the rough shape
sure form for floor tillering and getting to the short string,i dont long string tiller
once i can get a short string on it all i use is my scrapers
small chain saw file for cutting nocks in
sandpaper for finish and final tillering
my digital camera and computer help with all stages of tillering,i take a pic and put it into widows paint and overlay and eliptical to check tiller(thanks to El D)
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Sounds like I should get the surform and some cabinet scrapers then. Thanks
More opinions?
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sailordad named off all the good stuff. I would recommend a farriers rasp also or any real aggresive file.
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Ok, I'll get a good rasp then.
What does it mean to chase a ring?
I also can't figure out, unless I buy a plank, how can I turn a log into a plank without a bandsaw?
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What you need is a scraper a draw knife and a rasp. If you are starting with board bows you don't need the draw knife. The rest are extras.
I started with a home made scraper and an old farriers rasp. I have chased a ring with a farriers rasp and scraper, but the draw knife makes it much easier. Old knives or scissors can be used for a scraper as can almost any flat piece of quality metal. I like the farriers rasp because you can get it for cheap and it has the coarse side and finer side.
Chasing a ring is when you take the back down to one growth ring. On white woods like hickory you don't have to chase a ring. You take the bark off and that is the back of the bow. With osage and some others you have to take the lighter sapwood off so you chase the first ring of heartwood.
Plank ? ? ? You can use boards which you buy. If you use staves you split them out of the log with a hammer and wedges. If you read this you will understand a lot more from what you read here. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,978.0.html
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Ah, yes I meant board but wrote plank (excuse my english). The glossary was helpful, thanks for the link.
Alright. So I'll get a scraper, should I get a rasp and a surform or will one of them do?
What I meant with the log question was, can you extract a board from a log, without using a bandsaw?
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Hey Justin,
Thanks for the link,i've been looking for that post also!
Ernie
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Ah, yes I meant board but wrote plank (excuse my English).
Your English is fine. A plank is a form of a board, but I wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing. It is possible to make a board from a log without a bandsaw, but it is difficult. Men have been making boards and beams from logs for many centuries. Hand saws or drawknives would do the job just fine.
I prefer a rasp over a sure form, but it is a personal preference.
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Alright. I'm mainly asking because the availability of anything usable here is next to nothing. The main wood sort sold around here is pine, everything is pine and with the exception of shops that sell construction supplies there are no shops that sell woods. I might have to work with logs...
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Check the shops that sell wood for cabinet makers. That is where I buy my boards. If you do find a log it would be much easier to make staves and build selfbows.
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I think I can get ahold of logs from a friends land. What is the typical "stave" shape like? And what method is used to turn logs into staves?
I want to start out just building a selfbow with nothing added except a riser for the handle.
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I think that You need to start with a good Board and learn the Basics first....go to Georges Site ( Jawge) and learn from all of the Knolledge that He has amassed there on how to turn a Board into a Shooting Bow... http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/archer.html
Since You don't say where you are from ...I would either look online...or at your local Feed Store for a Ferriers Rasp...then go to Home Depot and get a flat Stanley Surform...back on the Internet for a set of Good Cabinet Scrapers from Veritas ...or get in touch with Sawfiler on here ...names Shannon....He makes a Killer Scraper that will hog wood or be as delicate as can be ....man I love Mine! A Bandsaw is not a Must...I have ruined more wood with one than with out...I use a Jigsaw when I need to rough out a Stave...or just my Rasp....
So.... A Sabersaw/Jigsaw to rough out the Board/Stave....a ferriers Rasp or Surform to hog off excess wood... a Tiller Tree or Tiller Stick...which you will find plenty of Information on here for building either of these from some scrap wood....Cabinet Scrapers for Tillering to perfection....and lots and lots of Sandpaper to smooth and finish the Masterpiece that you are about to create....and remember to start to save all of your Pocket Change...because this is going to become an Addiction....believe Me!!
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Oh excuse me, I live in Sweden, so finding things will be more difficult for me. I'm going to try and find a board, but I might have to use a log...
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You cut the log then split it into fourths.
If you look at this thread by Cowboy you will see the start of getting staves from logs. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3331.0.html
If you can get good trees starting with staves is a great way to start. It does take a long time for the wood to dry enough to use though. You can spit a couple down to three inches wide then use a draw knife or rasp to remove all the extra wood to make it dry faster. You will leave it just larger than the bow. Find out what kind of wood you can get, then we can give you more information.
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i use a draw knife for removing bark and chasing a ring also a scraper on ring. draw knife to cut in shape of my bow and take the bulk off the belly. then all i use is a good rasp and scraper to tiller, and lots of sandpaper. a mason jar works good to burnish the bow.
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A question on tillering;
If tillering with a long string, how do you know the actual draw length? Or is that irrelevant until the bow is braced?
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A question on tillering;
If tillering with a long string, how do you know the actual draw length? Or is that irrelevant until the bow is braced?
You nailed it....the Draw Length is not important yet......not pulling the Bow past desired Final Draw Weight...and not overworking areas of unbending wood is of the utmost importance while on the Long String...don't worry about Draw Length until you have the Bow at a Low Brace...
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like el d said dont go past your desired draw wight. i have had some bows that i worked a couple inches on my tiller tree in one day. shut it down till the next day go 2 or 3 more shut it down. dont push it. i know you wana sling wood but when you rush thats when it goes bad. i still gota alot to learn on tiller but go slow.
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like el d said dont go past your desired draw wight. i have had some bows that i worked a couple inches on my tiller tree in one day. shut it down till the next day go 2 or 3 more shut it down. dont push it. i know you wana sling wood but when you rush thats when it goes bad. i still gota alot to learn on tiller but go slow.
Yeah not going past top draw weight is something I read all the time.
Besides human error, is there any harm to doing much work in a short period of time?
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not that I have encountered...as long as you work the Wood every time you shave some off...to make sure that the wood has remembered that it is bending differently...otherwise you can end up Hinging one really fast....you have to work it between scrapings to work the Wood fibers...JMO
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Isn't "Don't Go Past Your Draw Weight" too simple a rule? What if there's a hinge, and you keep pulling because "You Haven't Pulled Past Your Draw Weight"? I'd like to suggest amending this rule to read
"Never Pull Past Your Draw Weight Or Through A Hinge." 8)
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Isn't "Don't Go Past Your Draw Weight" too simple a rule? What if there's a hinge, and you keep pulling because "You Haven't Pulled Past Your Draw Weight"? I'd like to suggest amending this rule to read
"Never Pull Past Your Draw Weight Or Through A Hinge." 8)
Surley you've misread, your logic doesn't really make sense. Of course never through a hinge is also true so sure, why not.
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Well, I agree I'm probably coming off a bit anal at the least, but I just watched a 6-part series on Youtube in which a guy spent hours and hours steambending an R/D (or maybe a D/R, I don't know which is which), glueing up a nice riser, backing it with fiberglass, and doing lots of things right, until tillering started. He pulled to his draw weight every time, and it was clear in part 5 he was throwing all his work out the window. Part 6 started with him trying to autopsy his bow, I shut it off I couldn't watch. I'm a nube, it could have happened to me (I've wrecked my bows for different reasons :P), so I'm just making a point for other nubes to maybe run across just in case. ;)
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Hehe... link?
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Warning: The following series of videos contain scenes which are guaranteed to be disturbing to all viewers who link to it from here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY7-Q4j1twY&feature=PlayList&p=DC942F8C763845F5&index=8
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Isn't "Don't Go Past Your Draw Weight" too simple a rule? What if there's a hinge, and you keep pulling because "You Haven't Pulled Past Your Draw Weight"? I'd like to suggest amending this rule to read
"Never Pull Past Your Draw Weight Or Through A Hinge." 8)
Never pull past your draw weight. Doesn't say anywhere that you have to pull to your draw weight. If you want to amend the rule, why not add "don't create a hinge." ;D
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Warning: The following series of videos contain scenes which are guaranteed to be disturbing to all viewers who link to it from here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY7-Q4j1twY&feature=PlayList&p=DC942F8C763845F5&index=8
Ouch. I spotted some mistakes and even I haven't yet built a bow.
I think I'm gonna try and see if I can find a suitable board tomorrow, however I doubt I will find anything other than crappy pine...
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Hom Depot....Lowes...and Mesnards all handle at least Red Oak...so you should be able to check with a Local Lumber yard and get you a good peice of Hardwood somewheres
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Hom Depot....Lowes...and Mesnards all handle at least Red Oak...so you should be able to check with a Local Lumber yard and get you a good peice of Hardwood somewheres
Yeah, problem is I don't live in the states so the wood availability is not the same here. I believe red oak is native to the states so it doesn't exist in the same volumes. We do have a shitload of pine, so everything is pine. My hopes is to find a pre-cut board that will suffice, I guess I can have something cut but it's just a hassle and more expensive in comparison to finding a done board.
I'm guessing the best I'll find is birch. Maybe something else. Does regular oak function?
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Birch will work as will many of the oaks.
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Where do You live?? I like Birch...River or Paper Birch....I have had good luck with it...and as for Oak...aint never found an Oak tree that didn't have a Bow in it....... ;D
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Oh excuse me, I live in Sweden, so finding things will be more difficult for me. I'm going to try and find a board, but I might have to use a log...
Page 1 El D..... ;) ;D
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Ya Justin....I kinda figured that out....when He answered my Question on Page one.. ;)
Oh excuse me, I live in Sweden, so finding things will be more difficult for me. I'm going to try and find a board, but I might have to use a log...
The reason I asked Where again...well I should have been more specific....is because the Southern Part of Sweden
like Skane.....and Blekingeis loaded with Deciduous Trees....like oak... ash... elm... lime... hazel... birch...and beech .....while areas like Varmland and Darlana are split between Coniferous and Deciduous Trees....and the Mountainous Regions are almost all Coniferous Trees.....
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I was out today, all pine. There was however, I do not know the proper term, you know the boards you have on the floor against walls, like this:
http://www.smelinkweb.com/ImageLibrary/3647/Mod%20Sockel%2056%2069mm.JPG
Anyway they were of oak but too thin, I believe 10mm or 12mm thick. They were long though, would it be possible to glue two of these together? That would be thick enough, but maybe there would be problems with the grain, I don't know, you tell me...
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Jonathan....You are referring to Baseboard Moulding...I can not see why you could not glue two of the together and make a Bow Blank...two of them would be damned near an Inch thick....you may even be able to induce a little Reflex in it when You glue them up...might be worth a Try.... ;)
I would send you a Stave for the price of Shipping...but with the Restrictions to Sweden...it would have to be 60 inches or shorter...or it would have to be two peices... and either Glued up or made into a Take Down Bow...
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Ya Justin....I kinda figured that out....when He answered my Question on Page one.. ;)
Oh excuse me, I live in Sweden, so finding things will be more difficult for me. I'm going to try and find a board, but I might have to use a log...
The reason I asked Where again...well I should have been more specific....is because the Southern Part of Sweden
like Skane.....and Blekingeis loaded with Deciduous Trees....like oak... ash... elm... lime... hazel... birch...and beech .....while areas like Varmland and Darlana are split between Coniferous and Deciduous Trees....and the Mountainous Regions are almost all Coniferous Trees.....
I live in Skåne, and it's true, we have a lot of beech espcially. The closest beech forest is about 3 minutes away from my house on foot. Loads of beech, but also oak, ash, birch and elm as you said.
I do not however have the tools or experience to chop a tree and make use of it myself. I don't really think going to a lumber yard and having something cut is a problem, they did have oak (didn't really ask about anything else because the chopping-guy was not there) and he told me they could cut me a board.
For starters though I think I'll buy that Oak baseboard moulding and glue two together for a bow blank..
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Today I swung by a shop, and to my suprise they did infact have done boards in teak, oak and beech. I was there 5 minutes before closing time so I did not have time to sort through, just take a quick look so I guess I'll swing by tomorrow and pick something up. I think I will get one in oak. The board I looked at was 15mm thick, is that a good thickness?
For the bow I'm going for 45lbs @ 28"...
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15mm is barely 1/2" thick....will do in a pinch...but not much room for error...I would see if He had anything around 18-20 mm thick myself....may be a little more scraping...but if you come across something unexpected...or mess up....you will still have some wood to work with....JMO
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Ok. I'll return tomorrow and see if they have something thicker. I only looked at the specs on that one so we will see then...
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The most important thing to Me about a Board for a Bow is that it is 1/4 Sawn or Rift Cut...and that there is little to no run-off at all....good luck
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The most important thing to Me about a Board for a Bow is that it is 1/4 Sawn or Rift Cut...and that there is little to no run-off at all....good luck
Quarter sawn or rift cut, is that to make sure the grain is right on the butt end of the board?
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The most important thing to Me about a Board for a Bow is that it is 1/4 Sawn or Rift Cut...and that there is little to no run-off at all....good luck
Quarter sawn or rift cut, is that to make sure the grain is right on the butt end of the board?
I shoot for either one of the two Bottom cuts in the Picture...mainly the Bottom most one....and make sure that you have little to no run off of Grain to the Sides of the Board...this makes for Disaster....JMO
[attachment deleted by admin]
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So aim for the grain to run straight over the butt end like the bottom, and no grain runoff. Got it, thanks
Are the two on top also acceptable or are they how it shouldn't look?
Btw do home depot-style stores generally sell any wax usable for a tillering string?
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I checked it out again. 15mm was the thickest, however none of them had acceptable grain. I found one that was 8mm thick but 360cm long (figured I would split it in the middle and glue together). It had really nice grain for about 320cm, the last 40 they kind of gradually ran off to the side, but I figrued that would work if I used the straighter piece on top.
However, whats a normal width for a bow blank? I was thinking of splitting it down the middle to make two blanks, but I didn't dare because it would be 16mm thick and maybe to thin.
For a bow blank it would be 1.35 inches wide (3.45cm) and 16mm thick split down the middle.
So would it work to split it down the middle or would keeping it as one be safer to have more width?
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I normally only make Paddle Bows from Boards...so I get the 1" X 4" X 1" boards and only make one Bow from a Board....plus I will look and if I see one that is wider and the Grain is good I will but it to split it...bout Normally I buy a single Board for a single Bow...as for Gluing two together...that would work in a Pinch...don't they sell 4/4 or 6/4 Lumber at this Shop? I would go for a straight peice of 6/4 ...si I had the thickness to make a Bow out of every 2 inches of width of the Board....JMO
4/4 = 13/16"
6/4 = 1-5/16"
8/4 = 1-13/16"
12/4 = 2-13/16"
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A picture is worth a thousand words. Would someone go into more detail and explain to me why the bottom cuts are the most desirable in the stavewood jpg.
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Haven't read all the posts but the most important tool you can own is probably the traditional bowyers bible series of books.Ron
P.S. if someone already posted this I'm sorry to repeat it.Ron
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Hello Jonathan.
I also live in Skåne, a couple of kilometres east of Lund, and they've been thinning the forest in the vicinity and a lot of straight and branch-free logs are laying about in the woods (they are serviceable, but a bit thin, because they keep the larger trees). There's plenty of them so if you live close by and feel like scavenging the forests for free material let me know and I can explain how to find them. They are mainly maples, but you can find a bit of everything. Can't guarantee that you'll have any use of them, but you might as well give it a go. They'll just rot away otherwise.
Edit: The traditional bowyer's bible series are really great. You can borrow them at Lund city library if you feel like it.