Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Mo_coon-catcher on December 13, 2017, 01:21:54 pm
-
I'm starting the tiller on anoyher difficult profile and wood type. I think the starting profile on each limb is a complete opposite of each other. It's gonna make for an interesting look when all tillered out. If it will. It's another black cherry elb. This time it's backed with heavy flooring paper and I'm only going for a 50# at 27" draw and is 72" between the nock points. Like my temp nocks with the double cinching loops?
Kyle
-
Here it is at a 5" brace and pulled to 19" though it's gone to 21". 6" to go. How's it look?
Kyle
-
I would think that with the deflex reflex of the stave that the tiller should reflect that. The reflexed limb should be almost straight at brace height. It looks like you've tillered for appearance rather than even bend. That's what makes these staves so difficult.
-
That's why I wanted to post it on here before I went much further. Think that taking a couple sets of scrapes off the left side would help even that out a bit? And the right limb is planned to be the top. I've been watching the handles movement to get an idea of which limb is stronger. I may have let it go a bit too much in the direction I wanted it stronger. I feel like I always have a diffiluct time telling if tag tiller is even when the tips have that much different of a starting point.
Thanks,
Kyle
-
Tough tiller. Both limbs have to move the same amount so the tiller will always appear off but is not .
I've had enough of those. I did many in the early days.
Now I try to reflex the other limb to match as much as possible.
Jawge
-
Total agreement Jawge. Those staves drive me nuts, and I never quite feel satisfied even if they shoot fine.
-
I gotta go with Jawge. I've only made 50 or so bows so my tillering may be at question but if a guy like Jawge who arguably has made millions of bows evens out the limbs before hand, I think that is the way to go. And to look at it another way, if you tiller it correctly it will look uneven at brace and full draw and you will be the only one that knows the tiller is good. Not that we care what others think ;) ;) ;) ;)
Bow of the month would have no entries if that were the case.
-
I love tillering those kinds of bows. They're not really any more difficult than others. When you tiller bows with regard to dynamic balance, you tiller those the same as any other bow. I can tell you for sure that if I was tillering that bow, it wouldn't look like that at brace.
-
I took an extra rasping. And some extra sets of scraping from the lower limb to bring it closer to even strength. I may take a little more from te bottom limb, but I don't feel too bad about this one. Being black cherry and pulling 55# at 27", it has to at least be close to still be in one piece with no frets. But it does have a light thumping te shot and doesn't have any noticeable rock when drawn. How's it look after a couple dozen shots? I typically try to tiller, so that when long string and up to about 18" I pull from the center of the string so the handle starts out perpendicular to the pull line and doesn't move as I pull back. Then I'll shift to my hold spots to finish tillering out. This one through me for some reason
The unbraced is right after a couple dozen shots and I tried leveling the handle on the unbraced and braced pics.
All input for tweaks is appreciated.
Kyle
-
In the braced pick, that spot the rope is, is there to balance the weight and flatten out the stave. It's not where I pulled from. I don't feel like to brace it too far off, but the full draw is off by a bit. The lower tip should be a bit lower compared to the top.
Kyle
-
the white lines make it difficult for me to see the tiller,, )W(
-
Kyle said,
"I'm starting the tiller on anoyher"
I'm not into naming bows much but I think you should name this "The Anoyher""
-
these white lines are playing tricks on my eyes, so it seems. The lower limb always seems to hinge where it crosses the white line, no matter how far on the limb it is!
-
It seems I might have to change the line colors when it warms back up. Maybe make them brown. It's a bit easier to see the limbs working in person and the kind don't seem to mess with you as much. I'll try to get a hand drawn picture soon to see what you all think, if that'll help some.
Kyle
-
In my opinion a perfect tiller would be asymmetrical with the left limb becoming the top of the bow and the bottom bending a little less.
-
As for the last picture, relative to the unbraced profile, your right limb is bending quite a few cm further than the left limb.
there seems to be a hinge near the tip in the right limb (pretty clear now in a graph program), and a little less pronounced in the left one too.
May be a photographic effect, but have a good look at it.
J
-
In my opinion a perfect tiller would be asymmetrical with the left limb becoming the top of the bow and the bottom bending a little less.
exactly like Chuck said. I personally would never leave the profile like you did. It is easy to bring the two limbs into balance and the tiller is much more comfortable to do. I'm curious what comes finally out.
-
I'm gonna have most of the day tomorrow to work on it. I'm already starting to like this two on two off work schedule. I may go ahead and even out the limbs. Any idea of the best way to bend black cherry, dry heat or steam? It does have a layer of paper glued in the back with TB3. Because of this I'm leaning towards dry heat.
Kyle
-
I may go ahead and even out the limbs. Any idea of the best way to bend black cherry, dry heat or steam?
But now you be changing horses mid stream, just when I thought someone might offer some actual hints as to how to help doing it the "hard" way.
They're not really any more difficult than others. When you tiller bows with regard to dynamic balance, you tiller those the same as any other bow.
DWS, being that the two limbs are different, I guess you do not compare the limbs visually. Do you compare each limb to a mental image of what you preconcieve it should look like?
clamp your handle, watch your tips?
let your handle rock, watch your nockpoint?
I have some new wood drying and wish to learn more about the materiel, really do not want to preshape the stave, so any method to the madness of doing it the hard way will be appreciated.
-
ok I agree with Simson that if you start with even profile it is easier to tiller,,
that being said, if you want to shoot the bow"the hard way",, that can be done as well, and still shoot well,,
make the limbs bend evenly ,,,which ever limb you want up,, and have the bow with a bit of positive tiller at full draw,,
it will shoot well,, the braced profile should be secondary to the full draw dynamic,,and the whay the bow shoots trumps all,,,
I can not tiller as well as some of the guys here, ,but ,,, I can tell when a bow is shooting well and getting perfect arrow flight,, that is key on a bow where the limbs do not match,,
I agree with Chuck too,, but I have tillered some bows and put the reflexed limb on the top and deflex on the bottom,, and they will shoot well,, sometimes a bit of the reflex will come out,,,like your stave,, and then you still have positive tiller,,,
since I dont know how the string is lining up on that bow,, I would consider that as well on which limb is up,, that being said you could not go wrong with the advise above from Chuck and Simson,,,, (SH) )P( (-S
-
I guess you can call it doing it the hard way buy leaving the profile uneven, and i have done that in years passed just because I didn't know how to change it, now I do and straighten the profile before I start tillering. As was said above it is very doable, just keep the limbs bending the same and it should turn out a good shooter. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. ;)
Pappy