Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bentstick54 on October 31, 2017, 05:24:29 pm
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Can a draw knife be too sharp for working Osage?
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I've never encountered a draw knife that was too sharp for working osage. Why do you ask?
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I'm the same as Eric. I like a sharp one for chasing rings.
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I doubt they can be too sharp, have you got the bevel down when you are working?
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There are two types of draw knives. Where the handles are parallel with the flat side of the blade, you MUST use it bevel side up. Where the handles are at a different angle, then you MUST work the tool bevel side down. Confused the heck out of me when I had a draw knife of one style and a buddy had one of the other style until both ended up on the workbench side by side.
Frankly, if I can split frog hairs with mine, it is just about sharp enough!
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I used to think mine was somewhat dull because I didn't sharpen it very often. Till I bumped myself with it and it slice me like a razor, they hold an edge forever it seems.
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I have just heard that some people like them sharp and others not so sharp. I have two that I keep reasonably sharp and like them that way. I occasionally touch them up with a whetstone. I recently picked up a Work Sharp electric sharpener that I think I could put a razor sharp edge on them if I tried. Just wasn’t sure if sharp is sharp enough, or if you could get them to sharp.
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JW, with all due respect, my draw knife handles are parallel to the flat side of the blade, and it absolutely doesn't work well bevel side up, but works wonderfully well with the bevel down. I think you have to try it both ways and see what works for you. As for sharpness, I prefer to keep mine as sharp as possible, but I have seen some people who like to debark and somehow chase a ring with a dullish blade. When I chase a ring, I remove the late wood with my draw knife and take off the soft early wood with a cabinet scraper.
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I used to think mine was somewhat dull because I didn't sharpen it very often. Till I bumped myself with it and it slice me like a razor, they hold an edge forever it seems.
I agree. I remove a lot of Osage bark and sapwood each year. I have never sharpened my draw knife but it will slice a finger open just like Badger said.
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Thanks everyone. I appreciate everyones thoughts. I have kept mine what I consider sharp, but could maybe get them “shaving sharp”. Was just wondering if it is possible to go to far.
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I have two. One as sharp as I can get it and the other with the edge knocked off. I've only chased a few rings but I used the sharp one for that. I use the dull(ish) one for removing bark on Ocean Spray and Doug Maple.
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My drawknife is sharp and I use it bevel up. Jawge
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I'd say yes especially on thin ringed osage..a duller blade seems to scrape the early wood just as good as sharp with less chance of violation... IMO..
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I have 3 draw knifes on the bench one 1 I keep razor sharp another razor sharp with a different bevel angle & 1 that is dull I use as a scraper I have a leather strap & jewelers rouge that I often stop and re sharpen I don't think a draw knife could be to sharp a sharp one at a skew will tare out less !
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I think the whole point of a drawknife is that you can use it:-
1. Bevel up
2. Bevel Down
3. Draw it towards you.
4. Push it away.
5. push/pull it straight
6. push/Pull it at an angle.
7. Keep one handle held still braced onto your thigh and just work the other handle for fine control.
8. Hold it with the face of the blade vertical so it becomes a scraper and draw it towards you.
It is a very versatile tool and can be used in all sorts of ways, from ripping off great swathes of wood to the finest shavings.
Del
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I think the whole point of a drawknife is that you can use it:-
1. Bevel up
2. Bevel Down
3. Draw it towards you.
4. Push it away.
5. push/pull it straight
6. push/Pull it at an angle.
7. Keep one handle held still braced onto your thigh and just work the other handle for fine control.
8. Hold it with the face of the blade vertical so it becomes a scraper and draw it towards you.
It is a very versatile tool and can be used in all sorts of ways, from ripping off great swathes of wood to the finest shavings.
Del
That's true, I use mine every which way, I used a double bevel knife for most of the years I was building bows. I always start somebody new bevel down just because they can get into less trouble. I always use mine bevel down when chasing a final ring as well but I know you can do it bevel up because I used to do it that way.
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JW and Jeff, I disagree with both of you. I have drawknives whose handles are parallel with the flat side, and some that are angled, some perpendicular to the cutting surface, and some angled out, and I've used them all, upside right and upside down, as the needs arise. I use em with the flat side down for 95% of the work, but with the bevel down when I need to... I just use what works best... and there are no "alls" about it related to their handle angles.
I agree with Gutpile that a sharp, but slightly less sharp, drawknife is better than a freshly honed one for the final chase of an osage ring... or the entire chase... on the super thin ones... but even then, they'll cut me like a good fillet knife if I get flesh in the way.
Generally, I keep all of them sharp, but since I don't abuse them, don't pry or scrape with them or allow other steel to touch them, they require minimal maintenance... an occasional brush with a fine diamond impregnated card.
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How do you guys sharpen your draw knife
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I sharpen mine with a good file.
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Many ways to skin a cat i guess. I've taken a good smooth cut file to my drawknives once each, if needed, when I first got them, then to a sharpening stone, then diamond hone. I've only had one of them long enough to need to bring the file back to it again and it's over 20 years old.
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I do use mine both bevel up, and bevel down. Mostly bevel down though. I agree with Del, that the two I have have been used about every way you can. I use them for hogging off wood, chasing the final ring, and as a scraper.
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I sharpen my draw knife with an old knife stone. I brace one handle on my chest and hold the other and run the stone across the bevel.
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Nice and sharp, single bevel, bevel up, drawn towards me is the way I use them.
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I've only ever used a typical drawknife with handles clearly designed to only be used bevel up. Trying to use a drawknife upside down feels about like using an axe with the handle put on upside down in the eye must feel.
I can't really envision a scenario where it would be beneficial.
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My grandfather always told me there was no reason to own a knife if it was dull. There are other tools to use for scraping.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,16601.msg228529.html#msg228529
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I like them pretty sharp and use bevel up most of the time and as Del said I use it all kinds of ways. I think like a lot of hand tools, it is all what you get use to. :)
Pappy
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I am really glad to hear so many people are using bevel up. I have been treating it like a closet activity because so many have told me I was using it wrong over the years. If I find a piece of wood where I am having trouble with it digging in too much I just flip it over to bevel down.
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I think they are designed to be used bevel up. I've never seen a makers mark on the flat side. Seems to me they want the mark facing up at the user. That's why it's on the bevel side.
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I have to expand my horizons and attain more open mindedness, at least according to my youngest daughter. She's known me now for 36 years. LOL. Not gonna happen.
I've never used a drawknife bevel down though I have used them as scrapers.
I guess that is a step in the right direction.
But gotta say using it bevel down, to me, is akin to using a screwdriver as a chisel.
Ok. Guess I've done that too. I was on my knees and did not feel like getting up to get a chisel. :)
Jawge
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+1 bevel up crowd not saying it's the only way but I was taught from a master wood carver that all hand edge tools are designed to be used bevel up razor sharp & used at a skew to avoid tare out with the exception of plane blades it's works for me same with chisels & gauges but it's like any thing working with wood , do what ever works best for you !
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I think they are designed to be used bevel up. I've never seen a makers mark on the flat side. Seems to me they want the mark facing up at the user. That's why it's on the bevel side.
That's not really valid logic... many things have a makers name on the base like plates, pots and pans etc.
I was going to say underwear too, but kids today have 'em with the label showing >:( and half their ass too.
Just sayin' O:)
Del
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There is no right 'answer' to which way up. It depends on bevel angle and handle angle and the job being done. Simple :)
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I find when I am working fast and hogging off wood but don't want to risk a tear out bevel down seems to work better for me especially on osage. If I am tillering with the draw knife I am usually bevel up. Elm and yew and hickory I usually end up working bevel up or sometimes going back to my rasp. All my handles are the same angle as the blade.
Being retired I seldom use my band saw to rough them out anymore because I really need the exercise much more than I need another bow. I use one of two methods depending on how the grain matches up on both sides of the bow. The faster more intelligent method is I run a black line down each side where I want to cut to and then take each side down to the line and then remove the high spot in the middle. My most enjoyable method is to simply remove the belly wood one ring at a time until it start to flex. Not a huge difference either way.
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Well said by Mike and Steve.I believe to do what feels comfortable and in control in bow making or what works for yourself.The more you use it the more finesse you can get with it.I started out bevel down and still do it that way.Used it bevel up too.Also use it as a scraper.I personally leave the middle section unsharpened and the outside 2" on each end a little sharper.
My draw knife has a slight arch in the center of the blade and is'nt a straight blade.
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Stickbender, yes, if you vary the angle of attack you can cut some rough (steep) and very fine (low) shavings. Jawge
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How do you guys sharpen your draw knife
Use a good single cut file draw file and lay it flat on the bevel. Clear the filings from the file between strokes and go slowly. Once you have a single bevel the whole edge of the blade from side to side, use an Arkansas stone or diamond hone to touch it up a little here and there. If the steel is properly hard, it will only rarely need to be honed a little here and there.
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This reminds me of Dr. Sues Butter Battles lol
Me myself don't really have a certain side depends on the wood I'm using and also what I'm trying to accomplish
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I sharpen my draw knives with a med. stone. I keep the same angle as I take my passes. The I flip it over and keeping the stone flat against the knife, i take a few more swipes.
Jawge