Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: blake on October 27, 2009, 08:58:58 pm
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How does red cedar work for making self bows? I found a nice straight cedar with no limbs to about five feet. It is about 4 inches in diameter. Is it worth trying?
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By Red Cedar are you talking about Eastern or Western? If your talking about Eastern it will make a good bow. I have one that is in a long drying phase after sinewing. Your best bet would be to back it with sinew or rawhide. But I have seen unbacked ERC. Most leave a sapwood layer on the back of the bow. You just have to make sure it is a super clean piece to go unbacked. As far as Western, I have no idea.
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Been wanting to try one myself. A gent here in Ky made one and killed a doe with it a few years ago, so from what I have read it can be done.
Carbinecasey
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Thanks, might have to give it a go! I think it is eastern red cedar I live near Kansas City missouri.
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It's probably Juniper, same family and makes a decent bow too.
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I CUT A LOT OF MY STAVES 50 MI FROM KC SO THATS E R C A JUNIPER LIKE DANO SAYS IF IT S CLEAN IT WILL MAKE AQ GOOD BOW LEAVE THE SAP IF YOU NEED TO BACK IT WITH SILK OR RAWHIDE BUT I BACK VERY FEW IF THEY ARE CLEAN AND HAVE GOOD SAP GO FOR IT BROCK
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Here in Oklahoma ERC is considered an invasive species and the conservation dept. actively encourages killing them whenever possible. They spread like crazy, suck up all the water and crowd out everything else. Plus, I'm allergic to them. I learned all this after I built my house on a lot where they're the only trees! Oh well, at least I don't have to rake leaves.
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Should make good arrows as well.
I grew up in Southern Missouri and they are all over the place same as Oklahoma. They treat it like a weed. There is also alot of hedge down there.
There was a good article a few issues back in Primitive Archer about Juniper Bows. Beautiful stuff. Smells good too.
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Blake, try this link. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,13432.0.html this is the bow i'm hunting with this year.
Have fun ! Eastern Redcedar is fun wood to work with.
JohnK
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WOW!! Thats a nice bow.
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BLAKE DAMN NICE STAVE YA GOT THERE ID MAKE A NICE FLAT BOW WITH IT LEAVE AS MUCH OF THE SAP AS YA CAN IF YA BACK WITH RAWHIDE IS USE GOAT HIDE REAL THIN AND WHITE OR SILK GOOD LUCK BROCK
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Thanks for the help guys think I will go cut it down tomarrow!
This will be m first bow ,can you guys give me some tips on spliting and seasoning it?
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blake, I cut mine in the spring so the bark slipped off. I slipt mine in half sealed the ends and back with white elmers glue and let it sit for about a month inside. After that i ruffed out my bow let it sit another month, and then it was ready for tillering. ERC seems to dry much faster than you'r hard woods !
Hope this helps some. JohnK
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I was gonna add that the ERC here grows with limbs all the way to the ground. I've considered using it from time to time, there's sure no shortage. Do the limbs make it unusable?
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Go for it man John nice bow u made I never madeone from ERC I have it growing where I live and never thought about using it hmmm maybe I should..also was thinking about gettin that thing my good friend Ken75 told me about for making arrows cedar will make some nice shafts as well!!!
Keep us posted!!!
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ShinneryOak, the best thing to do is to find a tree out in the woods that doesn't have all those low limbs. Often, you can find cedars that are grown up tight against another tree, and there won't be any limbs on that side.
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Dang, I made a nice long reply when this topic started, but the post disappeared! I like ERC and find it a great wood to work with, once it's dry anyway. I find the green wood has a funky odor. Straight knot free staves are out there if you look hard. As others said look for situations that force the cedar to grow straight and with out branches. A north facing slope or down in a canyon or stream bed are possibilities. The really big cedars growing in the middle of a pasture often have fairly straight, horizontal limbs. The top 1/2 of those limbs can make an especially beautiful bow, as the sapwood tends to be thin and the bow winds up with a lot of heart wood Ron
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This is another one of those woods about which there have been many queries over the years but few finished bows posted. I have a stave leaning over a gainst the wall there and I guess I'll just try one.
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Thanks for all the input guys. What would be the best layout and length to make it. I am trying for 50-55# at 27" .
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I am thinking of making mine 67" long and 1 & 3/4" wide. Rounded belly profile. My stave has a little deflex so I plan to steam the outer limbs and bring the tips out a bit. Was thinking of using hemp cloth backing to increase tension strength
Dave
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I think your layout will be determined by the condition of the stave. Go as wide as you can - 1-3/4" or more, if possible. I've been successful with a couple of pyramid ERC layouts that started out around 1-3/4". If you don't have enough width, you could consider an ELB.
4" diameter is not much. The heartwood will meander, and you might have to make a mostly sapwood bow. That'll work, but ideally, you'll have a mostly heartwood bow with a thin layer of sapwood.
You'll likely have some pin knots. That's okay. Just avoid the big ones. Be warned - ERC loves to explode. You'd do well to back it, especially if you don't have much width/length to work with.
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Based on my stave, I will have no heartwood in the limbs - only in the handle. The sapwood is over an inch thick
Dave
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I have made a few out of cedar, one was 50 lbs and fast.
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If the sapwood is that thick you should thin it and get some of that heartwood in the bow. I don't know how heavy you plan to make this bow but I don't think at 67"long you need to go that wide with erc. Unless your going over 60# I would make it about 1" 5/8.
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Does anyone know what type the cedar boards they sell in Home Depot in Missouri are?
I've seen some really straight grained knot-free boards in there.
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Holy Smoke! Look what I ran across when I started looking at some of the red cedar articles at Oklahoma Dept of Wildlife- plans to use the "pest trees" to make particleboard- combined with Osage!! http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/redcedarsolution.htm
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I have not used cedar, but have built some from juniper. when you rough out the stave make it thicker than you think of when working with osage or other hardwoods, in other words overbuild it. cedar doesnt have a lot of compression, so if you make it too thin it will be a wimpy bow, wide, flat limbs are the way to go. cant wait to see your progress. I will be posting a juniper holmegard backed with sinew that is a fantasic shooter, need to finish it off after hunting season scarred it some :P
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So far all of my ERC/ Rocky Mountain Juniper bows have been 38-45#. But I've made both narrow ELB (~ 1 3/8) and wide (~2") limbed bows with success. I've also made a couple, using ERC boards from the lumber yard. Joshro- If the boards are labeled 'Tennessee cedar" its the ERC we're talking about. It will be marbled red and white color, or red heartwood and white sap, but there is almost always some mixing of the red and white and often a lot of knots. If your store's cedar is all solid red, it's probably western red cedar- not a good bow wood. If it is all solid white, it's probably arborvita, and that's not a good bow wood either.
Ron
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As far as Western, I have no idea.
Western R C is too soft for bows.