Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Otoe Bow on September 24, 2008, 02:07:34 pm
-
Sorry guys, I know this has been covered several times before, but I can't seem to get the "search function" to... well....function. ???
I need a recipe and instructions on pine pitch glue (I think it's 1/3 pitch, 1/3 charcoal, and 1/3 herbivore manure (dried)). Also, how do you go about mixing it all up, heating to mix, etc, etc.
Thanks a bunch.
Mike
-
Mike, the formula you mentioned works well, or substitute beeswax for the doodoo, or just 50/50 pitch/charcoal works. It's not set in stone-if it's a bit too brittle, add more charcoal, wax, fecal fiber, or whatever. If it won't set up and stays too soft, add more pine rosin. I heat the pitch up until it melts, let it heat a while longer to drive out some of the volitile oils, then mix the other stuff in. A coleman stove and metal coffee can works well, and you definitely want to do it outside. Hot pitch reeks, smokes, and burns like napalm.
-
Mike, I use 1/3 of each but instead of dried herbivore manure use finely ground charcoal or fine saw dust. The manure works also. The bees wax makes the glue less brittle and the "filler" adds body. The way I do it is to heat the pitch(cleaned of debris) to melt it then add the wax and charcoal. You will want to start off with brittle, hard pitch to begin with or cook it until the volatile components evaporate. If not the pitch glue will remain sticky until these components evaporate off. Be careful because it is highly flammable.
After combining the components put a stick about 1" into the melted glue, stir a around a bit, remove it and dip in cool water and repeat the process. This will build up a glob of pitch on the stick for ease of use. Make up as many stick as you have glue to work with and carry them in your tool box or pack. All you have to do is reheat the glue for use. Pat
-
Thanks guys. I kind of knew, but wanted to get the take of those that have done it before. I think I'll try it on a Coleman stove and coffee can out in my shop (or just outside the overhead door). I originally thought of using a torch, but I see the problems in that now. I'll keep you posted on the results.
Mike
-
Personally, I think pitch works fine by itself. I've added powdered charcoal and sawdust to it but it looks lumpy when cool and I haven't noticed any improvement in the glue....so my formula now is just pitch with a little lamp black (if I want a black looking glue..or paint). I haven't tried adding dung, though, so maybe that's my problem. ;D
The hardest part of working with pitch glue, for me, is the open time. The glue cools and hardens really quick. I use a heat gun set on low (aimed at the glue joint) to maintain the temp while I'm working.
-
Hi
wallynosocks from england here. I've used pine pitch a bit and I'm not saying this is the best method or the only,- but I first melt down the pine resin, (I also use spruce resin), then add hardwood charcoal ground fine, about a third. Then I add bone filings, any old bone, sometimes my dogs lend me some of theirs - when they're not watching them. This has worked very well, not too brittle, but sometimes on sunny days (when we get them in England!) it gets a bit soft. Do any of you use it to hold feathers on or do you use modern glues?
I was at Compton and Cloverdale last year and had a blast. You yanks are great people, very friendly, and I learnt a lot from the bowhunters there.
-
Wallynocks, welcome. Do you mean you grind up the bone into powder?
Also, a question to any brother who uses pine pitch. How does a person go about getting it? Do you have to tap into the trunk of the tree or is there a season, like spring, when it just comes oosing out and then you collect it??
Thanks,
Papa Matt
-
Matt, I collect pitch from damaged trees. Look for trees that have physical and insect damage. I prefer to use pitch that is hard and brittle. The oozy stuff will stay sticky until the volatile oils evaporate unless you cook it until they evaporate. Do this outside! :o
When using the pitch glue recipe I have I drip hot glue into the prefitted slot for the arrow head, heat the head some and set it in place. I give it a minute to set and do a spin test on my finger with the arrow. If it doesn't spin true I reheat and adjust and spin it again. Even later after it has been hafted and wrapped with sinew it can be adjusted by reheating and adjusting.
Wally, Native Americans and other primitives used pitch to hold feathers down. I believe they used it either fresh and somewhat oozy or melted hard pitch. I have not tried that. Lately I have been just tying the front and back of the fletching with sinew. Pat
-
Pat B, is there a best season to collect or is it year round? When you heat the hard and brittle pitch, how runny does it get or how runny should you let it get, which is really 2 different questions?
-
That's how I collected mine too. We had a bad ice storm last winter with a lot of broken limbs. I also have some trees with insect damage as well. When I picked it off the trees, it reminded me of sugar candy. Kind of Hard and Crumbly.
My trees are ornamental ones that I planted 12-15 years back. To be honest with you, I don't even know what they are. To us Okies, all evergreens are just "pine" trees or cedars. ;D
-
Hi
Yeah grind the bone to powder, you don't need much, probably a large pinch to small lump of resin glue, or until you feel it's right for you. There's only a few rules in primitive, and mostly we learn like our ancestors did, trial and error.
Collecting it. In England early Autumn, about this time of year, I think you call it fall, there is usually some still running but mostly solidified, and that's when I collect most. It comes from natural lesions or tears in the bark and you will see its trail usually white or brownish running down, sometimes, handily for us, even coagulating in holes.
Not all trees have it so you have forage and gather where you find it. Last weekend in a copse of about 80 spruce I found 4 bleeders and collecting a handful in about 10 minutes ( careful it sticks to your knives and fingers and it's a bitch to wash off). You can collect it all year, because if nobody has taken it it will still be there in spring usually whiteish and hard, or sometimes it can look just like bark in colour and texture. It smells great and I get as much pleasure digging it out of holes in trees as I do working with. Get small pleasures from where you can. You can even, without hurting the tree, cut the bark in spring and wait for about 6 month. I don't, and really there should be enough damaged trees around without needing to. Happy collecting
-
Great Wally, thanks for all the info!! I' going out right now to see if I can collect any.
Much appreciated
~~Papa Matt
-
Matt, I collect it as I find it. I keep a small Ziploc bag in my hunting pack just for it. If it is too oozy I leave it until later.
When you heat it up it will become the consistency of thick molasses. I only cook the oozy stuff to evaporate the volatile oils and use heat the hard stuff just to melt it.
Generally you have to remove debris(bark, dirt, saw dust from insect damage) from the pitch. I am curious what method ya'll use. I have tried a few methods with some success. I have herd of boiling pitch in water. the pitch and debris will separate and the water poured or cooked off. I haven't tried this method yet but plan to to see if I get better results. Pat
-
Here is my sap store.
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o281/maillemaker1/Arrows/Lookin010.jpg)
I try to wait until it dries and then take it off the tree. This one starts running from 18 feet up and runs for about ten feet. The last time I went, I got a two gallon trash can full. I buy the cheap disposable aluminum pans from the dollar store to melt it in. I made a wooden frame around some aluminum screen mesh, lay it on the pan and lay a pile of pitch on it and heat it with a heat gun. It melts and runs down into the pan. Mesh kitchen strainers work also. I try to let it cool after a thin layer, then it will shatter like glass and crumble into a coarse powder and I store it in zip lock bags. Ready to heat and mix then.
-
Armed with knowledge, but wanting for time. Maybe this weekend. Thanks for the help guys.
Mike
-
Well I tried the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 recipe and it was a disaster. :-[ I think the horse manure was way to "grainy", laterally, and 1/3 by volume was definitely too much, not to mention when I added the charcoal and manure to the boiling pitch, I lost most of the hair on my Pop-ey'esque forearms ;D .
Be careful because it is highly flammable.
Thanks for the warning Pat. I guess I should listen next time. :'(
I even tried adding some bees wax. (or at least the waxy looking stuff from a toilet bowl ring. I don't even know if it is bees wax but I'd heard it was). ??? Then it just looked greasy and was still brittle. I think the next batch I try will just be pitch and charcoal.
Learning by doing.
Mike
-
Mike the charcoal and dried manure do the same thing in pitch glue; adds body so use one or the other. I've never used manure but I believe you grind it up small before mixing. The wax makes the glue less brittle. My 1/3 measurements were never precise. It was an approximation. The best way is to melt the pitch, add the wax then enough of the charcoal or dried manure(or saw dust) to give the glue body. Pat
-
Mike I agree with Pat B
I've never used manure so can't comment, but I think 1/3-1/3-1/3 mixture might not give you what you want.
I'm not all that precise when I make it up as a glue, a bit more primitive and trial and error.
When you get spruce resin (or pine I suppose) melt it gently together, stir it to mix it and let the, I think it's turpentine, evaporate off for a few minutes. Don't let it boil at all! You'll smell the stuff coming out of it. I don't remove the debris unless it's really big as it all adds to the strength I think.
Now mix in a goodly bit of hardwood charcoal until it feels about right. To lessen the brittleness melt in real beeswax, about an 1/8 of volume, any more and it seems not to harden properly. Add about the same, or maybe a bit less of any old hard bone filings, use file, hacksaw, and give the rest of the bone back to your dog. stir with stick then dip stick in water to test the lump of pitch stuck to it. If it's too brittle for you lob in another bit of beeswax, if too soft a bit more resin or charcoal, or bone filings. Test again.
I've been told not to keep melting it too many times or it loses glueability. Dip a stick into finished pitch glue and build it up til you've got a nice lump then carry it for running repairs. Just warm it over heat and stick it on. It smells great. I covered my buffalo sinew ends on my version of a Mere Heath bow, which I'll put photo's up, when I learn how to to do it!
-
I usually mix very finely ground hardwood charcoal with the melted pitch. I don't think I've ever measured it, but I think it's about 25% or so by volume. I collect blobs of hardened pitch off of pines, mostly loblolly just because they're the most common pine around here, and heat the pitch with just enough heat for it to melt. Once the charcoal and pitch are well mixed, I add some little 1/8" to 1/4" "snips" of cordage fiber (dogbane, nettle, etc.)- just to give it some body- plus a few pea-sized bits of rendered deer tallow (serves the same purpose as the beeswax). I store the pitch blend on the ends of little sticks by dipping the stick in the molten pitch, then dipping it in cold water, and repeating until it's built up as much as I want it. To use it, I heat the pitch until it is soft enough to pinch off a ball, then I put the pitch ball in the slot to accommodate the arrowhead and heat it in place until it's very soft, then I push the arrowhead in place. Preheating the arrowhead helps create a stronger bond as well as giving you longer to get it properly in place (something to protect your hands from the heat helps as well). If it hardens up before you've gotten it set in place, the end of the arrow can be held up to a heat source and rotated to re-soften the pitch. I then smooth things up, wrap it with wet sinew and finally coat the sinew with hide glue. I came up with my method by combining information from several sources (Larry Dean Olsen, Scott Silsby, etc.), and it works for me. Keep experimenting until you get a mixture that does what you want it to do.
Will
-
Here's an interesting word:
Tetrapharmacum
·noun A combination of wax, resin, lard, and pitch, composing an Ointment.
PS. Go easy on the lard (or tallow).
-
I would echo the need to watch the flames and fumes having nearly burned myself, overcooked, etc., but if you have it under control, there is no absolute need to do it outside. Here is my setup:
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/wolfsirebella/Picture-1.jpg)
Working two tablespoons at a time, rather that two gallons, is enough for me. A coffeewarmer will not put out enough heat to even melt it unless there is a flat metal bottom and a lid. But then, it is perfect. My "pan," I am pretty sure, is the lid off a fondue pot burner. I found it by itself at a thrift store.