Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Del the cat on October 21, 2013, 11:40:15 am
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I made this as a practice and training bow as I have a couple of guys wanting Warbows.
Tillering is quite different to a normal bow... no chance of floor tillering, as if it flexes at all it's prob' already under weight >:D
Stats:- 80.5" ttt probably a whisker under 100# at 32"
No live full draw pic ... yet, but there's one on my blog of it on the tiller at 32"
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/elm-warbow-full-draw-on-tiller.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/elm-warbow-full-draw-on-tiller.html)
Funny thing is I can't draw it very far without an arrow, but once I nock a bit fat arrow and have my foam target to shoot at, I'm getting maybe 29-30" of draw and when it hits home it rocks the target back, sticking about 3" through the back.
This time next week I'll have it back to my full draw.
The Elm sapwood / heartwood gives it a bit of a 'poormans Yew' look.It's not really finished and polished up yet, just had a quick wipe with Danish oil.
Nuff chat, here's some pics (lower limb at the bottom in the pics...)
Del
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Looks good from what I can see...why not post the pic of it on the tree here so everyone else doesn't have to go "bow shopping" ... :laugh:
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Nice warbow Del,
little more stats for dimensions.
George
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Looks good from what I can see...why not post the pic of it on the tree here so everyone else doesn't have to go "bow shopping" ... :laugh:
Nope! It was taken as a screen grab from video and was a right pain... that's why I linked to it.
Once I'm able to shoot it at a decent full draw I'll post a pic.
Do you want me to come over there and wipe your backside for you too? ::) ;)
Del
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Nice warbow Del,
little more stats for dimensions.
George
OK... Lower limb.
Distance from centre line. Width / Depth
Centre 40.1 33.2
200mm 41.2 31.6 ... interesting that it's slightly narrower at the centreline :o
400mm 37.3 28.0
600mm 32.1 25.1
800mm 28.0 22.0
900mm 24.7 20.2
edge of horn nock 985mm 14.3 14.1
Hope that's what you were after?
Del
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Distance from centre line. Width / Depth
Centre 40.1 33.2
Ha! So powerful in the center and only 100#(. Typically 36-37/32-33 is sufficient but for 74-76" without heat belly.
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I started with some Mary Rose dimensions, and I left it nice and wide with a slightly trapped back as it's Elm. The belly was heat treated to stiffen it.
I've only made one Elm longbow before, many years ago, when we had Dutch Elm disease in the UK (60#) and that chrysalled badly due to a fairly narrow D cross section.
Del
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Nice elm warbow, Del. Tiller looks spot on. Looks like poor man's yew!! Nice that you have some sapwood/heartwood. What kind of elm? Red?
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Oh, yah... for what it's worth... I never draw and let down warbows. It's too hard. If I'm going to draw one, it has an arrow on my fist, and at full draw it's gone. That way, I'm not over drawing it either.
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... What kind of elm? Red?
LOL... dunno!
Don't think we get fancy species of Elm in the UK... just plain Vanilla.
It was given to me as a present for all the selfless hard work I do on my Bowyers Diary O:) ;)
Del
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Oh, yah... for what it's worth... I never draw and let down warbows. It's too hard. If I'm going to draw one, it has an arrow on my fist, and at full draw it's gone. That way, I'm not over drawing it either.
Yeah I deffinitely agree with that, I'm sure letting down a heavy bow is the way to get an injury... I had pulled it a bit, in front of a big window to have a quick eyeball of the tiller.
Del
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Love the look of this. especially the top limb. so exquisetly crooked.. yet...so right. i have two elms being couriered to me from other side of australia..should be here by friday...a 75 and an 85. very lumpy.. I love elm..almost as much as Yew. top bow Del.
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Oh, yah... for what it's worth... I never draw and let down warbows. It's too hard. If I'm going to draw one, it has an arrow on my fist, and at full draw it's gone. That way, I'm not over drawing it either.
Yeah I deffinitely agree with that, I'm sure letting down a heavy bow is the way to get an injury... I had pulled it a bit, in front of a big window to have a quick eyeball of the tiller.
Del
Get someone to take pics of you shooting and then you can study the full draw shots until your eyes cross.
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I just shot 9 arrows through it :) after a frustrating day at work... great therapy. It's geting easier. Hopefully one of the guys will come round at the weekend to we can get some decent pics and give it a good work out.
Del
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Beautiful bow, beautiful fulldraw. I love the character of a bow like this, bows like this make every laminate seem just boring. :)
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Beautiful bow, beautiful fulldraw. I love the character of a bow like this, bows like this make every laminate seem just boring. :)
Cheers :)
Del
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ok fellahs...i must be tired or lacking some attention today..so teach an ol girl some new knowledge and let me in on the secret mens business of waxed strings and thier weight . ? pretty please?
1. Can the weight of wax applied affect the tension/flight/draw yada yada yada of the arrow
2. can the wax weight affect the archer in the draw strength needed. ?.
ok..stupid questions now out of the way..im off to work to try and make heads and tails of my fellow staff members.
P.S...dont get too technical ok ?. a simple yes maam or no hun will suffice.
cheers kelly.
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ok fellahs...i must be tired or lacking some attention today..so teach an ol girl some new knowledge and let me in on the secret mens business of waxed strings and thier weight . ? pretty please?
1. Can the weight of wax applied affect the tension/flight/draw yada yada yada of the arrow
2. can the wax weight affect the archer in the draw strength needed. ?.
ok..stupid questions now out of the way..im off to work to try and make heads and tails of my fellow staff members.
P.S...dont get too technical ok ?. a simple yes maam or no hun will suffice.
cheers kelly.
I honestly don't know, but I would guess it wouldn't effect it too much, unless you were flight shooting light arrows, or you really caked it on there. I wax all my stings typically, unless they are endless loop, then sometimes I will leave them bare. But I wouldn't think the wax would effect the draw any, unless there were chemicals in the wax that weakened the string, and made the string stretch more.
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Wax will add weight to your string. Actually, more than I imagined... but that's not a good reason to avoid waxing your string. The wax will make the string last longer. The wax provides lubrication to the string fibers which are rubbing into each other as the string is tensioned and slackened. I use a proper purpose made string wax and not beeswax. Beeswax becomes clumped and heavy and brittle when it dries after multiple applications.
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Well nearly full draw...
Del
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Wow Del looking good! but don't give yourself a hernia! ;).
Can I have a go next time I see you?
Ive had to drop down to 110@32. Just cant quite manage the 120.
I struggle to keep my drawing shoulder down, no problem for you though by the look of it.
very well done sir!
Matt
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Looks good Del! As Matt says, excellent form with the shoulder/elbow.
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Cheers guys...
I think the grimace needs some work ;)
Yeah, Matt, I insist you have a go next time you are over!
Del
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I would sure not like to be on the other side of that door! And I think you grimace is fine, although it might be a bit on the sadistically evil / blood-thirsty side... ;D
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Looks good. I have a hard time drawing heavy bows horizontal like that.
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Excellent Del...but when the wife says she will start you dinner try not to hurry her up..its only offputting.
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Clearly it's shish kebabs he's helping the Missus prepare there Kel. She lines up the meat on the counter-top and he "inserts" the wooden skewers from the garden! LoL
P.s. All joshing aside; I had the opportunity to shoot Del's new elm bow yesterday and I can tell ya, she is an absolute peach! 8)
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Clearly it's shish kebabs he's helping the Missus prepare there Kel. She lines up the meat on the counter-top and he "inserts" the wooden skewers from the garden! LoL
P.s. All joshing aside; I had the opportunity to shoot Del's new elm bow yesterday and I can tell ya, she is an absolute peach! 8)
Yeah, you didn't even break into a sweat... I think your grimace needs some work tho' ;)
Now that's what I call full draw!
Del
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gotta love Elm.
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Very nice bow Del. I have a red elm stave roughed-out at 80" and was hoping to get a 100 pounder out of it (maybe 110), so it's nice to have some measurements to compare.
This one has just over 1/2" of sapwood left on it, after removing the outermost growth ring. I'm assuming that is a good thing, but I've never used this wood before.
Love that full draw pic :) Looks like even your toes tensed up. Must be for extra power >:D
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@ Cameroo:-
Dunno much about Elm, but from what I've read, the sapwood performs the same as the heart wood. But it's nice to have a layer of it just for the look of it.
I think I'm overstretching to try for 32" draw, or maybe my technique is just pants.
My pec is suffering for it... maybe I'm wearing my bracer in the wrong place?
You can see the line of the bruise is moving back from the first time I shot it, maybe it will be missing my pec completely soon.... :'(
(those of a squeamish disposition look away now... ;D )
Del
(Well it is Halloween >:D )
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ummm.hmm..well yes of course.. um..i cant do that..well i could but it would be the last post i ever put here lol. Well i have a couple mammories but have never managed a bruise there.
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ummm.hmm..well yes of course.. um..i cant do that..well i could but it would be the last post i ever put here lol. Well i have a couple mammories but have never managed a bruise there.
Maybe I'm taking the shooting "IN the bow" a bit too literally. Even with a lower poundage bow I'm struggling to get 32" draw.
Maybe we get a bit obsessed by draw length, after all the Mary Rose Arrows were certainly not all 32", plenty were just 28".
I'll have to settle on what is a comfortable sensible draw length for me... prob 30"
Del
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True Del. i watch some archers draw warbows seemingly effortless. i have to put a hell of a lot into it. As a result my tech goes out the window a bit. I have bitten my arm on numerous occasions due to straightening it to stop my arms from collapsing. I have to naturally lean forward to clear the balloons anyway. true on arrow length..32 is something we all aspire to but depends on how we are built. I average 31 on the 110. i am ok with that.
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Mark Stretton and Joe Gibbs are the two guys to watch for technique tips with this exact issue Del. They're both fairly short, so the 32" draw is a challenge. To get round it, you have to stick your arse RIGHT out, until it feels very daft, and bend right over at the waist. Point your belly at the floor, and you should find your chest caves inward getting well out of the way of the string.
It's one of the little things that makes a huge difference that is very hard to pick up at first. It also engages the shoulder and back sooner, allowing the poundage to be moved away from the arms which is crucial on bows that are pushing 150# so for your 100# bow it should work beautifully.
There aren't many videos of Mark, but I'll try and find a clip of Joe shooting from behind him so you can see the posture.
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Not a great example, but here's Joe breaking another record...
Note the arse sticking out, and the back concaving, pulling the chest inwards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2jAsE9ics
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That's a fab picture Del.....better get a couple of inches of duct-tape across that nipple though fellah, or the next time you see it it could be stuck to the target! :o
Seriously; it's almost impossible to assess what you might be doing wrong from one picture, but from what I understand, I'll bet my metaphorical broadhead that you need to keep more weight in the front leg, stay pushing forwards and lean into the shot more. This will ensure that your shoulders and back are really working, otherwise its all arms and they're nothing like as strong. It's so tempting to take your body backwards with the string thinking this will help the length of your draw, unfortunately you're also taking the bow back with you so this doesn't really add anything to the equation.
Important to remember we're not talking about a rolling loose here ;) so step forward, turn it out, keep your weight in the front leg, stick your butt out and lean into the shot more. I reckon lack of lean is primarily where your "moob" is coming into play!
Hope to see you on Sunday for the roving shoot with the Finsbury Mark ;D
Happy shootynge! 8)
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Leaning forward/backward probably isn't going to make a huge difference to the chest position. You're spot on about leaning back being the wrong way to do it, but rolling loose or not doesn't matter, as the basic technique still requires the chest to be well out of the way.
You can shoot at a flat trajectory at a target 20 yards away and still need to point your belly at the floor and bend your spine backwards if you wanna keep both nipples ;)
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Here we go, this is the vid I wanted to find.
This is shooting at a close target, so no distance shooting or rolling loose here. If you pause the video at 51 seconds, you can see Scott, Steve and Mark all adopt the bend-at-the-waist position. Bum out, shoulders back, spine curved as much as possible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubMkIOpNKU
This is the key to getting chest out of the way, while retaining strength and stability.
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In fact in that video, Scott (two to the left of Steve in the red cap) has such a flawless technique.
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Good vid. I see exactly what you mean.
Another thing is I probably cant the bow a bit too much which doesn't help.
I'll prob shoot some more this afternoon... with maybe a newspaper down my shirt ;)
Del
@ Heffalump
I've got the Yew Warbow on a long string, pulling the tips down to about brace height... it's taking 140# to get it back that far :o.
But of course once a sting is on it that poundage dissapears and becomes the starting point of the draw weight (effectively zero! All very confusticating...).
Pics on the blog later today...
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I had the exact same problem with canting! I found it much more comfortable to cant a longbow when shooting target, so with draw weights of around 40 - 60lbs, and going from that to war bows took a long time to break the habit of canting!
It does feel very odd bringing the lower limb around in front of you, so with that plus the odd body posture it all takes a while!
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Already salivating at the thought of that bow Del......I'll look at your bowyery bloggings later today ;)
Please be careful with her ;)......now I've seen your pictures of the stave and the tree she originally came from, I'm already feeling an emotional attachment to that piece of timber. I suspect that, rather like pins a voodoo doll.....if it explodes on the tiller in Harlow, I'm probably gonna collapse in pain 15 miles away in Cuffley :o :laugh:
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Correct me if I'm wrong folks, but is Del the first guy ever to get his tits out on PA?! :o ......... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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;D ;D ;D
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Correct me if I'm wrong folks, but is Del the first guy ever to get his tits out on PA?! :o ......... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I say old chap... it's just the one! ???
Del
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An archery version of the "wardrobe (war bow..?) malfunction"...
;)
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I've seen it all now. I've heard about bow porn but this is ridiculous! :o
Awesome bow Del! :)