Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: burchett.donald on April 07, 2018, 01:59:10 pm
-
String tracking a character bow or any bow has been in many discussions here on PA...I want to show what has been working for me a long time...I can lean a bow against a wall or hold it however I want, then take a look...Standing behind the bow I can move a little and so does the string picture...Lean left and the string appears to track to the right... Lean right and the string appears to move left...I would always scratch my head at this point and say is this really accurate...
I have a tool that I use after "brace" that points to the strings track...I use gravity and a wire plumb...I was tillering a sinew backed character Ocean Spray this morning and took some pictures...
This has worked for me countless times and hasn't failed me yet...Hope this is helpful to someone..
Don
-
More...
-
I use the same tool but I support the bow between 2 blocks of 2x4's just past the fades making sure its squared and even. I think when you hold it by the string like that the bow will become plumb underneath it and you could get a false reading.
-
That's the idea Clint, I want to plumb the bow also...This is a high crown so it wouldn't set on blocks...An undulating back on a flat surface will give you a false read...
Don
-
I believe that this is the quickest, easiest method to get it close enough whether you hold it by the string, like Don or by the limbs like BJ. Something in the back of my little brain says there is a little something we are missing though. Ideally if you could have the bow at brace height and full draw at the same time and then sight from nock point to nock point your line of sight should hit the middle of the bow. haven't really figured how to do that and I'm not sure it would gain you much.
Have you ever done one that surprises you? Like you're pretty sure it's right and then use this method and find its wrong? I think you would probably feel it twisting in your hand or something.
-
DC,
So far no surprises...Although I do heat bend and most alignment around floor tiller...I can see where a stave with enough twist or character wouldn't work...I only use this as a reference after brace and try to shape my handle to plumb...I haven't built a bow with enough character to twist in my hand...So far it has given me the best side to shoot my bendy's from...
Don
-
great thread guys. I have always struggled with how best to measure this on snakey bows, or bows with uneven twist. These bows look like they have aligned handles when unstrung, but upon stringing the snakes and rollercoasters cause twist, which brings the string out of alignment. I basically use the "gravity" method (holding the string), and also pay attention to weather the belly lies exactly perpendicular to a line drawn from the string to the belly. In the end, if it shoots arrows well, it's good enough.
-
Well there ya go Don, It must work as advertised bud, because your full draw sort of says everything that needs to be said. That bow looks perfectly balanced, and perfectly tillered. I know that us "bendy" guys are weird but damned if that bow does not look like a screamer....SWEET and PERFECT
rich
-
Wow! Rich, thank you for the kind words... When it comes to bendy's you taught me everything I know Sir...Your the Bendy doctor...
Aaron,
That's a good point to bring up about the belly being perpendicular to the string...I think that is important...In my case it was perpendicular but I couldn't decide which side was going to be the best to shoot from so I used the plumb method...Here's some pics of what I was faced with...It shoots really well
Don
-
Awesome, never though about wire. I made a miniature plumb bob, but its a pain to tie it on then back off, gonna make one like yours. Thanks.
-
ill give it a try, thanks
-
I have a short arrow shaft with a knock on it that I use as a pointer but never thought about suspending the bow by the string great idea Thanks !
-
JW, Brad and Stick Bender thanks...Please share some feedback on your future results...
-
Cool idea! I will give it a try. There are definitely times that I'm second guessing myself about the string alignment. I have to be extra careful as a lefty making right handed bows because if the string is tracking to the left a bit then it might shoot well for me but not for a righthanded shooter.
-
Don,
Thanks for the post. I just learned something else. So much good information on this site.
Steve
-
Another great topic. Every day I learn something new on PA. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
-
Good idea Don and like half eye said man that is a sweet tiller. I guess I usually just notch a arrow at brace height from both sides of the bow and see how much arrow angle is to get around handle. I make a quite a few shelfless bows and know a bunch of lefties so I like to get handle to where you can shoot off either side.
Bjrogg
-
I can see the wire shows exactly where the string crosses at the proposed arrow pass.A nifty gauge for sure.I usually just do the balancing of the tips method looking straight down the string.I always can tell just by shooting what's going on also.
-
Thanks guy's great discussion, like to here everyone's technique...That's how we learn and get the wheels turning...
Bj, thanks for the kind words man...
Ed, I have used that method also... :OK
Don
-
Wow, I'm pretty sure this idea has just saved me hours of confusion and heat treating time spent thinking "well, that's not right, nope, I think that's too far to the right, nope, it was right before." Thanks for this!
-
Yup I've done a similar thing before with a plumb line.
The little pointer pivoting on the string is very clever ;D Much better than mu method.
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/maple-finished-hazel-bark-on-bow.html (https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/maple-finished-hazel-bark-on-bow.html)
Del
-
Lots of ideas to consider and try-out. I’ve been using a similar approach for a while with the same “good” results as Don (wish my tiller jobs looked as good!).
1. At low brace, I hold the bow and pull on the string to determine how the handle fits with in my hand, and then mark the handle center as it rests in my palm/fist. This is especially useful for character bows.
2. I support the bow by clamping the handle in my vise, horizontally, with the center mark on top (plumb).
3. My plumb-bob indicators are cotter pins of different lengths: short ones for low brace and longer ones as I raise the brace height (there are lots of sizes available from auto parts stores). Just spread the pins apart a little bit to slide it over the string above the center of the handle. The side-to-side string alignment will be indicated by the gap.
In the (blurry) picture, the brace height is 2 inches and the alignment is pretty close – but still needs to go to the left a little.
-
Wow, I have never done or even tried this. I'm behind the times. this needs to be the next thing I learn more about.
The sticky above the "Bows" homepage called "The Mechanics of Limb Twist" solved most of my problems with string centering. But a couple times I have not liked the way a bow felt at full draw to me and had to blame it on it torquing the wrong way in my hand, a.k.a. limb centering and limb twist.
-
I will give that a shot, currently I just rest one tip on the ground and one tip on my finger and see how gravity rests it.
-
Del, I see your plumb :OK
Eric, NonBacked and Springbuck please let us know your results...Your results are what matters in the end...
Steve, I have eyeballed the string on the tips along with gravity many times also...I just feel this method gives me some solid ground to stand on, so far anyway...Please let us know what you end up with...
Don
-
Thanks for this tip! Spent a lot of time on my last few bow wondering this very thing. Absolutely going to be trying this out. Your tips are much appreciated! Mike
-
I think when you hold it by the string like that the bow will become plumb underneath it and you could get a false reading.
+1
i'm pretty sure the center of mass or center of gravity could differ from the center of forces generated by bending the wood
-
Mike,
I only use this at full brace...Sooo many times I have floor tillered and worked my way to brace and upon stringing I see a different picture...The forces of brace take over and things can change with these wood bows caused by so many variables....Plumbing at this point and various times during tiller allows me to tweek limb alignment...I have looked good at brace and at full tiller make a final adjustment...Your feed back and results would be appreciated...
Thanks, Don
-
Glis, mass and gravity work hand in hand...We can always just guess we are aligned...
Don
-
It took a while, but like a said this was something I had to try.
Anyone following along in this years bow swap may have seen the stave im working on. String alignment was a concern from the layout. So I left tips and handle wide until I could see how things progressed. Long story short, by using this gravity method, it showed that string alignment was closer to center than what I though(That's a good thing!) So I narrowed things up to close to final dimensions around how this showed what should be center. Bottom line it worked great. This was a tricky stave for me and its not finished yet but I feel I got the string where it should be. Too quick simple for me to not use on future bows.
Great tip Don! Thanks a bunch for sharing it.
Mike
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1743/42692135432_8b73ec4b86_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/283ymuy)IMG_1881 (https://flic.kr/p/283ymuy) by Mike Allridge (https://www.flickr.com/photos/158435722@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1737/40930908900_25d6d748db_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25mVBcS)IMG_1884 (https://flic.kr/p/25mVBcS) by Mike Allridge (https://www.flickr.com/photos/158435722@N02/), on Flickr
-
Mike,
Glad it worked out for you...I talked to a couple other folks and they had good results also...It hasn't missed for me yet...Thank you for taking the time and effort to report back...
That is a killer looking character bow you have, great work! I'm jealous of the future recipient...
Don
-
I think that's a great idea. One could use different sized screw eyes until full brace height is achieved. Jawge
-
This is a good thread. I've always read and have always tried to make the string line up with the center of the handle. But the more I think about it, why wouldn't you want the string to stop at the center of your proposed arrow position, not necessarily the center of the bow? Or would that cause torque in the hand?
I guess in a perfect world you would have the arrow center pass in perfect alignment with the center of the handle and string.
-
Bayou Ben,
This system is only to show string tracking...Your proposed arrow position would be a matter of choice...I am a right handed shooter and prefer mine to be slightly left of center...Just enough to allow for the roll off my fingers bringing it in a straight line travel and allow clearance of the arrows paradox...Many variables will affect arrow flight...Again this is just a system to show string alignment/tracking only...
Don
-
So if you would instead of making your plumb wire point to slightly left of center, you make it point all the way to the arrow (in your case on the left side of the bow handle probably close to 1/2" to the left of center), would this be a bad idea? This would in my mind reduce the amount of paradox, and make for a truer sight picture and a truer transfer of energy from the string to the arrow. I'm not saying this is right, I more or less want an opinion as to why this is wrong so I can put my mind to rest on the subject. Sorry if I'm not being clear..I have an overthinking problem.
-
Ben,
The paradox will flex/wrap around the bow...You have to allow for that as a finger shooter...String tracking to far to the left will cause me to shoot to the right with bad flight...Remember the string rolls to the left off your fingers before traveling forward...I like to be 1/8" to 1/4" max left of center with my string track...To reduce paradox you would need a stiffer arrow which would make tuning more critical...You may get many different opinions on this...So many variables with these all wood primitive bows...This is my basic set up and JMHO...Hope this helps...
Don
-
Very informative thread! Did you make the wire hook or ifs that a store bought item. This idea should help a lot of us newbies!
Hawkdancer
-
Don,
Thanks for the response. Yeah I wasn't thinking about the string rolling off of your fingers. I'm going to try this out on a bow I'm about to bring to brace....I need to try a D-bow like you make one of these days. Your bows look so well balanced. Looks like a joy to shoot.
-
Thank you Ben...Please give me some feedback on your progress...
Jerry, that was made from a 1/16" brass rod, I noticed that M2A / Mike's looked threaded on the bottom, so you may be able to purchase them also...?
Don
-
Cool, I'm gonna have to try this also. Thanks Donald
-
Hawkdancer, I used the brass stem from toilet bowl flapper valve. I cant tell you what the real name is. but its the part between then handle and screws right into the rubber stop. When I saw what Don had I figured that's what it was and I knew I had one still in the package in my shop. Just opened up the eye enough to get over the string. You should be able to find at any hardware store for a buck or two. Its a bit short at full brace so takes an extra minute to line things up, but effective so don't think I'm going to swap it out for anything different for now.
Thanks for the kind words Don! If I can get it to bend like one of yours Ill be happy :)
Mike
-
Thanks Mike and great idea...If you don't want to make your own you can find a "rubber toilet tank ball" or an "eyebolt" for under 3$ at your local hardware store...As Mike said you will have to open up the circle just enough to fit on your string...I will check multiple times at brace through out the entire tillering sequence...
Don
-
After I check my brass rods, I may be off to the Ac hardware!!
Hawkdancer