Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Tetsuoh on March 28, 2013, 03:29:47 am
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What feathers are not legal? especially in Ohio?
And on that note, does anyone know where I can find out the laws for my state on what birds I cannot hunt as well?
I've got the government sites bookmarked for, The departments of fish and game, and the department of natural resources.
LOTS of laws, just can't find what I'm looking for evidently.
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Do not use any bird of prey. It is very bad to do that. Do not use song bird feathers. Also bad ( though I think its dumb ). If after looking things up, I have questions, I just call my game warden. Usually, they are nice guys. Havent met one I didnt like ( despite the fact that I got fined hefty once for accidentally catching a fish in a cast net that wasnt supposed to be caught that way. ) Anyways, call the warden, he will help you out.
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I remember my first conversations with game wardens. They went something like this, "Well, anything that you can't buy at a store like Micheal's or Hobby Lobby is probably illegal. I wouldn't trust the internet unless you know for sure that feathers come from farm-raised birds".
That's pretty much it, if you want to be safe.
If you want to get persnickety, and enjoy risk taking, you can use feathers from legally harvested birds that you have hunted and killed or your buddies have hunted. These are in addition to farm-raised bird feathers.
Texas, my home state, is a not a "feather friendly" place and anything that looks like a wild bird feather will get you a fine if you can't provide documentation on the source where they were purchased. And just because a bird can be hunted in Texas doesn't mean you can possess the feathers. That's right, boys and girls. They have to be attached to the bird or in the garbage.
I get all my feathers either from friends out of state or from internet feather dealers. I've never used feathers from birds that I've hunted in Texas. I don't even save the ones I find at duck ponds here any more. I had a box of those but I threw it out.
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I believe every state has a wanton waste law. And I do believe not being able to use parts of the game animal for uses other than eating is wanton wasting. I would be very interested in knowing what it takes to get a law amended.
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There was a huge thread last year about this and it has a. Lot of good info in it. Try a search for feathers or owl feathers.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31302.0.html
Several other posts on the topic too.
Tracy
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The fines are based nationally on the migratory bird act. Technically, at a minimum, you cannot possess any part of a federally recognized migratory bird for any reason. Raptors tend to get you the biggest fines. You have to have a license to possess the feathers, usually in association with a falconer's license (in which case you can only keep the feathers of your own bird, and only for imping, not for use in craft projects). You can also have educational raptor permits which allow you to keep feathers for educational or imping purposes but not for use in craft projects. So far as I know, there is no way to legally use raptor feathers in arrows in the United States.
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Technically, at a minimum, you cannot possess any part of a federally recognized migratory bird for any reason.
Atlatlista
You might have forgotten about legally harvested waterfowl such as ducks and geese. I have used the primaries for several years as they are great for fletching and legal if originally taken in a legal manner.
Just steer clear of raptors and protected species and you should be fine :)
Tracy
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Remind me Never to hunt Texas, Jackcrafty. My tolerance for government rules that make no sense at all, (when I am a law abiding citizen) is running dangerously low. Main laws I agree with completely, Don't shoot hens in the spring, no deer hunting in the spring and when young are still vulnerable.... but the vast majority of government laws are ridiculously typed from men in suits sitting behind desks. They may feel there is no need for perfectly good feathers, but who are they to make that decision. The older I get I start supporting the Native American "We belong to the land" mentality and not the modern- "we own the land" ideal. so much goes to waste in this country b\c fancy government officials have no sense of sustainability. meat, deer antlers, feathers, furs..all wasted each year because of heavily taxed automobiles.... heaven forbid, I "illegally" pick the deer up, eat it, tan it's skin for clothing and cut it's antlers up for knapping tools and knife handles. what I would give to be a fly on the wall when the world does melt down and every asset is invaluable.... then have someone come take a deer meat out of one of those fancy "important" people's mouths and say "sorry, this deer was not killed by legal means...therefor we cannot eat it. It must rot to waste in a ditch while mouths are hungry..it's the law you know."
I am normally quite quiet on most internet topics and try not to stir the pot...but every now and then you gotta pull the pressure relief valve. I mean come on.....molted feathers, we can't have them..... how simply ridiculous when you break it down. Next thing you know we won't be able to use dead trees for fire wood.....
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Just a suggestion but use the strongest and most legal feather out there. Wild Turkey feathers.
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Remind me Never to hunt Texas, Jackcrafty. My tolerance for government rules that make no sense at all, (when I am a law abiding citizen) is running dangerously low. Main laws I agree with completely, Don't shoot hens in the spring, no deer hunting in the spring and when young are still vulnerable.... but the vast majority of government laws are ridiculously typed from men in suits sitting behind desks. They may feel there is no need for perfectly good feathers, but who are they to make that decision. The older I get I start supporting the Native American "We belong to the land" mentality and not the modern- "we own the land" ideal. so much goes to waste in this country b\c fancy government officials have no sense of sustainability. meat, deer antlers, feathers, furs..all wasted each year because of heavily taxed automobiles.... heaven forbid, I "illegally" pick the deer up, eat it, tan it's skin for clothing and cut it's antlers up for knapping tools and knife handles. what I would give to be a fly on the wall when the world does melt down and every asset is invaluable.... then have someone come take a deer meat out of one of those fancy "important" people's mouths and say "sorry, this deer was not killed by legal means...therefor we cannot eat it. It must rot to waste in a ditch while mouths are hungry..it's the law you know."
I am normally quite quiet on most internet topics and try not to stir the pot...but every now and then you gotta pull the pressure relief valve. I mean come on.....molted feathers, we can't have them..... how simply ridiculous when you break it down. Next thing you know we won't be able to use dead trees for fire wood.....
The reason there are so many illegal feathers is because there used to be market for feathers and it almost caused many wading birds to go extinct. The government has outlawed the possession of certain feathers because it could create a demand for them. Even if most people are attaining them without harming the birds if people are buying them, then someone is bound to go out and start shooting the birds and selling the feathers illegally. It's the same reason that you can't keep any native species of snake in Georgia as a pet. They don't want collectors going out and selling native specimens.
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Remind me Never to hunt Texas, Jackcrafty. My tolerance for government rules that make no sense at all, (when I am a law abiding citizen) is running dangerously low. Main laws I agree with completely, Don't shoot hens in the spring, no deer hunting in the spring and when young are still vulnerable.... but the vast majority of government laws are ridiculously typed from men in suits sitting behind desks. They may feel there is no need for perfectly good feathers, but who are they to make that decision. The older I get I start supporting the Native American "We belong to the land" mentality and not the modern- "we own the land" ideal. so much goes to waste in this country b\c fancy government officials have no sense of sustainability. meat, deer antlers, feathers, furs..all wasted each year because of heavily taxed automobiles.... heaven forbid, I "illegally" pick the deer up, eat it, tan it's skin for clothing and cut it's antlers up for knapping tools and knife handles. what I would give to be a fly on the wall when the world does melt down and every asset is invaluable.... then have someone come take a deer meat out of one of those fancy "important" people's mouths and say "sorry, this deer was not killed by legal means...therefor we cannot eat it. It must rot to waste in a ditch while mouths are hungry..it's the law you know."
I am normally quite quiet on most internet topics and try not to stir the pot...but every now and then you gotta pull the pressure relief valve. I mean come on.....molted feathers, we can't have them..... how simply ridiculous when you break it down. Next thing you know we won't be able to use dead trees for fire wood.....
The reason there are so many illegal feathers is because there used to be market for feathers and it almost caused many wading birds to go extinct. The government has outlawed the possession of certain feathers because it could create a demand for them. Even if most people are attaining them without harming the birds if people are buying them, then someone is bound to go out and start shooting the birds and selling the feathers illegally. It's the same reason that you can't keep any native species of snake in Georgia as a pet. They don't want collectors going out and selling native specimens.
PT is right. The "feather" trade for hats got so ridiculous that women were sporting entire taxidermied GREAT BLUE HERONS and other birds on their heads!!! To get them in their best plumage, they were shooting the birds off the nests to get the breeding plmage, fer cripes sakes. Killing one bird was not the issue, it was the entire nest that then died. And since it was most often the female on the nest, that took out a breeder from the population so subsequent nestings were also lost.
Ultimately, there is no way to tell the difference between a molted feather in your hand from one pulled from a shotgunned bird. And once that feather has been passed from the poacher to another person, proof is virtually impossible to obtain.
I've got feathers, as mentioned by Atlatlista, on my Federal Special Use/Education Permit. Trust me, even dumb old farm turkey feathers are better fletching than eagle/vulture/hawk/owl fletching. The only difference is the mojo or "medicine" raptor feathers may be ascribed as possessing. And that can't be measured by science.
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Wait, you made an arrow with owl fletching??? So was it super quiet? I want to see it! When I'm old and the law doesn't apply to me I want to make an arrow fletched with owl feathers. For some reason it just seems like the coolest thing to me.
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I think I found an owl feather in my yard once, but it was broken and dirt, so I could not be sure. I still have it... is it illegal to possess?
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I think I found an owl feather in my yard once, but it was broken and dirt, so I could not be sure. I still have it... is it illegal to possess?
Yup, way to confess. lol Hope a DNR dude doesn't show up at your house
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" am normally quite quiet"... ;D :-X Most bird feathers are illegal, just a few you can use. Twisted, You're crackin me up here. ;) dpg
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I'm sticking with my safe and sound turkey feathers. I figure if they can get a fat old gobbler up in a tree they can make my cane arrows fly good enough.
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I'm sticking with my safe and sound turkey feathers. I figure if they can get a fat old gobbler up in a tree they can make my cane arrows fly good enough.
Glad you didn't say chicken feathers, cause that yellow dog wasn't having any of it >:D. You were kinda entitled to a few feathers and a drumstick for damages incurred :o
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Yes Sir,
Do not keep Any Raptor Parts or Pieces.
Also watch your Backside out there,
It is Illegal to gather Dead Wood in Many State/National Parks... >:D
Man I Love being the bearer of Good News... >:D
-gus
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That's why there is something called night time gardening. Am I guilty of it? Let's just say I have carried sticks under the cover of darknesss in the past....
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I just posted the Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act for any and all to read. I'll sticky it as it moves down the page. This law was passed for a good reason. Plume hunters were wiping out many bird species so fashionable ladies could have flamboyant hats to wear. Read "The Wichery Of Archery" by Mourice Thompson. That is what he and his brother Will did after the civil war when Southerners couldn't own guns so these two GA boys took up the bow and lots of cool adventures...one of which was plume hunting.
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I just posted the Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act for any and all to read. I'll sticky it as it moves down the page. This law was passed for a good reason. Plume hunters were wiping out many bird species so fashionable ladies could have flamboyant hats to wear. Read "The Wichery Of Archery" by Mourice Thompson. That is what he and his brother Will did after the civil war when Southerners couldn't own guns so these two GA boys took up the bow and lots of cool adventures...one of which was plume hunting.
Isn't that kind of irrelevant now? People have forgotten about feathers and it's not really stylish. Almost all of these birds would be easily poached for anyone that really wanted the feathers. Could the plumage fashion come back if there was no protection?
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It doesn't really hurt anything having protections for most bird species and turkey and goose feathers, both of which are prime fletching, are exempted from the law.
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Im from ohio and usualy use turkey feathers. But i have used goose and crow for a few arrows. If you know where there is a park or lake where flocks of geese hang out in the spring, you can gather a lot of feathers off the ground when they are molting.
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I agree with Twistedlimb for the most part,not sure on the we belone to the land part [I truly believe strongly in property rights] , but completely understand the law, as long as Turkey /goose are ok ,I'm good,and Tennessee has a road kill law,[really ,passed it a few years ago] everyone was laughing but I love it, we can pick up road kill, no problem. Great to live in a red neck state. ;) :) Still no Raptor feathers or killing snakes. ???
Pappy
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Yep it's like they say it only takes a few bad apples in the barrel to spoil the whole barrel.That's just the way it is.
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It doesn't really bug me that there are laws against hunting them.
What bugs me is that you can't claim molted feathers or roadkill. Its just plain wasteful, and the human people wastes far too much of everything as it is.
I believe I should be able to call an official, state that I'm on a road kill permit, and they be allowed to call me to clean up kills in my area and do as I please with it.
On that same note - they should be able to track who picks up what and have it on your license for them to see.
Molted on the other hand - is a he said she said deal. You could maybe submit a picture of where it was found, but that wouldn't hold much weight, so it wouldn't get passed as proof. On that note though, maybe a field gather permit would work if they added a clause involving officials and park rangers.
Primitive Archer Permit, stating what other permits you have and your record of gathers.
Yeah, I see how it would be too much work for them, and they would rather just let it go then. Sad, really.
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laws get tighter and tighter whenever any kind of abuse occurs.
assume guilty until proven innocent is becoming more and more the norm.
ranchers lock gates accessing BLM land -- gone are the days when you could assume public land could be enjoyed by the public.
One of the reasons I left New Mexico...always made to feel like a sneaking criminal hiking around.
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Dude, I do not even know it was a owl feather, it might just be a wierdo turkey.
I do not have it anyway.
Plus, there probably is a way to tell the difference between a molted and slaughtered feather....
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This federal law has been in existence since 1908. That is one hundred and five years. Its not like they just sprung it on everyone. ::)
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What bugs me is that you can't claim molted feathers or roadkill. Its just plain wasteful, and the human people wastes far too much of everything as it is.
I believe I should be able to call an official, state that I'm on a road kill permit, and they be allowed to call me to clean up kills in my area and do as I please with it.
On that same note - they should be able to track who picks up what and have it on your license for them to see.
Molted on the other hand - is a he said she said deal. You could maybe submit a picture of where it was found, but that wouldn't hold much weight, so it wouldn't get passed as proof. On that note though, maybe a field gather permit would work if they added a clause involving officials and park rangers.
Primitive Archer Permit, stating what other permits you have and your record of gathers.
Yeah, I see how it would be too much work for them, and they would rather just let it go then. Sad, really.
Do you know how big the US Fish & Wildlife Agency is already? Even so, my permitting agent takes a minimum of 6 wks to get around to rubber stamping any of my permit applications, she's told me that she trusts me implicitly and barely reads applications. But there is so much work to do it takes her 6 wks to just do the rubber stamp.
Now we are going to add millions and millions of people submitting permit applications for feathers they wish to pick up? I don't see that as a working part of the "smaller government" model.
I had a friend that worked in the National Park Service and he was injured restraining some joker from out east that was taking an axe to one of the giant sequoias in a National Park! He claimed no one said he couldn't!!! I figure about 99.99% of the folks in here wouldn't just go out and shoot a hawk for fletching if laws were repealed. But those very few that screw everything up so badly make the protections so important.
Side note: Went out on a call for a downed bald eagle, today. She was grounded and put up no resistance and I have her crated and ready for transport to a rehabber tomorrow afternoon. She's beautiful. Then this evening I get a call and cell phone pics of a golden eagle with a broken wing 2 miles up a hiking trail in the high elevations. Looks like I will be heading out about 10:30 p.m. to find her. I still gotta be at work at 9:30 a.m. Better pack the .45 in case I get molested by a mountain lion!
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Wait, you made an arrow with owl fletching??? So was it super quiet? I want to see it! When I'm old and the law doesn't apply to me I want to make an arrow fletched with owl feathers. For some reason it just seems like the coolest thing to me.
Nope, never made an arrow with those feathers. But by picking up molted feathers and flexing them alongside turkey primaries, it became abundantly clear what was the better quality fletching. Great horned owl fletching would be gorgeous, though. Especially with a redtailed hawk tailfeather for the cock feather! But it ain't a gonna happen in my workshop!
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Most of my turkey feathers are illegal.
A guy that works in my plant poaches them like mad, and eats every bit. I take all the wings and save as much as I can, he eats the rest. While I never poached a thing in my life and dont plan to start, I cant see tossing the wings in a ditch somewhere. So he puts them in black bags and places them in the back of my truck.
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Wait, you made an arrow with owl fletching??? So was it super quiet? I want to see it! When I'm old and the law doesn't apply to me I want to make an arrow fletched with owl feathers. For some reason it just seems like the coolest thing to me.
Nope, never made an arrow with those feathers. But by picking up molted feathers and flexing them alongside turkey primaries, it became abundantly clear what was the better quality fletching. Great horned owl fletching would be gorgeous, though. Especially with a redtailed hawk tailfeather for the cock feather! But it ain't a gonna happen in my workshop!
I worked with a raptor rehabilitation center for several years, so I'm also quite familiar with the molted feathers of these birds. Hawk feathers could work for fletching, but owl feathers, as you say, would be much worse than turkey. Honestly, I don't think hawk feathers would have anything over turkey feathers either. There's just no sense in doing it. Good work with the bald eagle rescue, by the way. I never got a bald eagle call in NC - mostly just red tails, broadwings, that kind of thing.
As to the notion that the law is outdated because plumage is no longer important fashionably, I think that's completely wrong. The feathers of protected north american birds are gorgeous, and they still carry with them a great reputation just based on the beauty of the birds themselves. I guarantee that if there were no law against it, people would be making peregrine falcon fletching. I wouldn't be surprised if something like that were popular enough that it got at least one commercial party interested. And that's just fletching. Don't forget that the fashion industry has brought lots of things back over the years. Feathers are one of those things. The last 3 or 4 years, girls have taken to wearing feathers in their hair and feathers dangling from earrings and pendants. They're chicken feathers or turkey feathers, or some other commercially harvested bird, but you can bet that the wealthier set would be switching to raptors in a heartbeat if the laws were changed.
Where I live, it's hard enough to get people to not intentionally run over vultures, let alone keeping them from killing hawks and owls that might threaten their precious backyard chickens. I don't think it would take very long at all for a raptor holocaust to ensue if they lost federal protection.
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Around here people shoot great horned owls and curse them for eating pheasants. Yeah, when you degrade your habitat until there is nowhere for a pheasant to hide, of course the owls can pick 'em off. But the great horned owl is about the only predator that prefers skunk.
When the owl eats a pheasant it's just one pheasant. Skunks switch over to egg raiding during nesting season and will sometimes raid two or three nests a nite training their kits to seek out and find gamebird nests. How many pheasant eggs in a nest? Typically 10-12. When that owl gnoshes a skunk how many pheasants did it save???
Got a call at 8:00 last nite, a guy found an eagle on a hiking trail in the Black Hills, 3 miles from the trailhead. I got GPS coordinates and hit the trail at 5:00 a.m. this morning with my 1911 .45 to light the way in case of a mountain lion. Found the bird and wrapped her up. Nothing appears broken, but she's emaciated like the other found yesterday. She's on her way to the rehab facility, too. AND I made it to work this morning on time! Two eagles in two days.
What I wouldn't give to spend a few days swapping outrageous truths and wood shavings with some of you folks....wait! The Tennessee Classic!!!
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If you wanted alot of feathers, I buy mine from M.Schwartz & Gettinger INC. they supply all the craft stores. I get imt.eagle 12-14 inch feathers by the pound as they have a min. order policy of $70.00 if you call them and tell them want you want them for they will help you out. a pound of feathers is @250 of this size. the feathers are first quality. I have not had one bad one. but ...that's alot of feathers to but for just a few arrow's you make alot of split them with a buddy its not bad. you can go to their oh-----these are farm raised turkey's and legal. hope this helps
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Nice, I nearly ran over an owl off-road biking today...
I did not see it. I litterally jumped off my bike. Raptors are AMAZING, do not see why people want to kill them.
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Remind me Never to hunt Texas, Jackcrafty. My tolerance for government rules that make no sense at all, (when I am a law abiding citizen) is running dangerously low. Main laws I agree with completely, Don't shoot hens in the spring, no deer hunting in the spring and when young are still vulnerable.... but the vast majority of government laws are ridiculously typed from men in suits sitting behind desks. They may feel there is no need for perfectly good feathers, but who are they to make that decision. The older I get I start supporting the Native American "We belong to the land" mentality and not the modern- "we own the land" ideal. so much goes to waste in this country b\c fancy government officials have no sense of sustainability. meat, deer antlers, feathers, furs..all wasted each year because of heavily taxed automobiles.... heaven forbid, I "illegally" pick the deer up, eat it, tan it's skin for clothing and cut it's antlers up for knapping tools and knife handles. what I would give to be a fly on the wall when the world does melt down and every asset is invaluable.... then have someone come take a deer meat out of one of those fancy "important" people's mouths and say "sorry, this deer was not killed by legal means...therefor we cannot eat it. It must rot to waste in a ditch while mouths are hungry..it's the law you know."
I am normally quite quiet on most internet topics and try not to stir the pot...but every now and then you gotta pull the pressure relief valve. I mean come on.....molted feathers, we can't have them..... how simply ridiculous when you break it down. Next thing you know we won't be able to use dead trees for fire wood.....
I hope I don't violate the "politics" rule here so I'll keep it brief. The only way to fight insane rules is to keep pressure on our elected officials, from City Hall to Washington & all points in between.
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Twistedlimbs and NCPat: Guys, there are plenty of ways to go around these stupid laws and get the animal parts we need. A trip to a deer processor, or two, will get you all the skins, bones, and leg sinew you can handle. And you can shoot or trap as many street pigeons as you want and their feathers can be used for fletching and anything else. Invasive species of carp can be killed in any numbers of ways, day or night, and the skins, meat, eggs, air bladders, and bones can be harvested. All of these sources are FREE.
With the growth of primitive archery, maybe we can get a senator or two in the lawmaker's chairs who are sympathetic to us knappers, arrow makers, bowyers, and primitive skills enthusiasts. The reason people are able to shoot migratory game birds but can't keep the feathers (except for fly tying and pillow stuffing) is because there are congressmen who do exactly these kinds of things. Heaven forbid that the would not be able to go on their duck hunts!
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What someone says are molted feathers could easily be poached feathers that the possessor claims are moulted.
Laws are made for law abiding citizens just like locks are to keep honest folks out. If someone don't like a law there are proper ways to change them.
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Pat, I agree. The first thing a poacher would say about illegal feathers in his possession would be, "Oh, those? I found them."
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*Using my best Bronx accent* What? Dis? Fell offa da back of a truck!
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It just ain't a Bronx accient, JW but I get your gest. ;)
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Twistedlimbs and NCPat: Guys, there are plenty of ways to go around these stupid laws and get the animal parts we need. A trip to a deer processor, or two, will get you all the skins, bones, and leg sinew you can handle.
Not around here , if you don't have paper work and tags they are still illegal parts and processors don;t want the paper work or hassle !
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wait, its illegal to have deerskin, deer sinew, and deer bone? Well...
I must now go chuck a few beautiful slings, and some very nice knives...
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Its illegal to have the raw material....I dont think a case can be made against you for a finished knofe, deer skin leather coat, mocks, or string. Of course, if you really piss of that one game warden, and you are wearing all that stuff, yer gonna be either walking home naked, or going to the hoos gow...
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In Texas, if the deer are received by the processor's cold storage facility with proper tags, and the information entered into a log book, then he can do what he wishes with the "inedible" parts: sell, trash, give away, or donate them. As long as the facility is legal and is considered a "final destination", all inedible parts coming out of the facility are legal to posses in any amount without documentation.
Sale of Inedible Wildlife Parts: The following inedible wildlife parts may be purchased or sold provided the part was lawfully taken or possessed:
Hair, hide, antlers, bones, horns, skull, hooves, or sinew from the following game animals: mule deer, white-tailed deer, pronghorn antelope, desert bighorn sheep, gray or cat squirrels, fox squirrels or red squirrels, and collared peccary or javelina.
Possession Limit: For all wildlife resources taken for personal consumption and for which there is a possession limit, the possession limit shall not apply after the wildlife resource has reached the possessor's permanent residence and is finally processed.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/fish_hunt/hunt/general/
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/fish_hunt/general_law.phtml
Buckeye, if you cannot posses deer parts (without tags, etc) in your area, that's a bummer. :-\ Check to make sure. You should be able to posses parts that have been processed.
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Remind me Never to hunt Texas, Jackcrafty. My tolerance for government rules that make no sense at all, (when I am a law abiding citizen) is running dangerously low. Main laws I agree with completely, Don't shoot hens in the spring, no deer hunting in the spring and when young are still vulnerable.... but the vast majority of government laws are ridiculously typed from men in suits sitting behind desks. They may feel there is no need for perfectly good feathers, but who are they to make that decision. The older I get I start supporting the Native American "We belong to the land" mentality and not the modern- "we own the land" ideal. so much goes to waste in this country b\c fancy government officials have no sense of sustainability. meat, deer antlers, feathers, furs..all wasted each year because of heavily taxed automobiles.... heaven forbid, I "illegally" pick the deer up, eat it, tan it's skin for clothing and cut it's antlers up for knapping tools and knife handles. what I would give to be a fly on the wall when the world does melt down and every asset is invaluable.... then have someone come take a deer meat out of one of those fancy "important" people's mouths and say "sorry, this deer was not killed by legal means...therefor we cannot eat it. It must rot to waste in a ditch while mouths are hungry..it's the law you know."
I am normally quite quiet on most internet topics and try not to stir the pot...but every now and then you gotta pull the pressure relief valve. I mean come on.....molted feathers, we can't have them..... how simply ridiculous when you break it down. Next thing you know we won't be able to use dead trees for fire wood.....
The reason there are so many illegal feathers is because there used to be market for feathers and it almost caused many wading birds to go extinct. The government has outlawed the possession of certain feathers because it could create a demand for them. Even if most people are attaining them without harming the birds if people are buying them, then someone is bound to go out and start shooting the birds and selling the feathers illegally. It's the same reason that you can't keep any native species of snake in Georgia as a pet. They don't want collectors going out and selling native specimens.
PT is right. The "feather" trade for hats got so ridiculous that women were sporting entire taxidermied GREAT BLUE HERONS and other birds on their heads!!! To get them in their best plumage, they were shooting the birds off the nests to get the breeding plmage, fer cripes sakes. Killing one bird was not the issue, it was the entire nest that then died. And since it was most often the female on the nest, that took out a breeder from the population so subsequent nestings were also lost.
Ultimately, there is no way to tell the difference between a molted feather in your hand from one pulled from a shotgunned bird. And once that feather has been passed from the poacher to another person, proof is virtually impossible to obtain.
I've got feathers, as mentioned by Atlatlista, on my Federal Special Use/Education Permit. Trust me, even dumb old farm turkey feathers are better fletching than eagle/vulture/hawk/owl fletching. The only difference is the mojo or "medicine" raptor feathers may be ascribed as possessing. And that can't be measured by science.
I have to agree with twisted limbs....any legally obtained game bird should be exempt from these rules. I would go a step further and bring bear parts into the picture more specifically "gull bladders" I would not have a problem letting people who LEGALLY harvest bear/bird parts sell them with a stamp /permit whatever. Letting people utilize all parts for trophy, or financial gain is NO DIFFERENT than the state collecting fees from us, or a land owner selling the rights to his land specifically for the purpose of harvesting a game animal.
Bottom line for me.....just like marijuana, if you keep it illegal the price goes through the roof....legalize, and tax it the need for a illegal trade goes WAY down. You are not going to get the gull bladder trade/feather trade to go away till the people that want them no longer find the source usable (or in my opinion find the little blue pill).......so, control the trade give them enough, and save the resource from overzelous poachers trying to make a quick buck where we all loose.
As far as Texas.....I have no desire to step one foot in that zoo, too many rules I could never adhere too! My daughter lived down there for a while I refused to go there!
VMB
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As far as Texas.....I have no desire to step one foot in that zoo, too many rules I could never adhere too! My daughter lived down there for a while I refused to go there!
VMB
Awe Come ON VMB...
You could always come down to Tejas to hunt the Elusive Straight Osage Tree.
Far as I know there is not Bag/Size/Possession limit on that odd critter...
And I have some Fine Aged Tequila that will make you shed your ill feelings for our fine state.
At least till the next morning...
>:D
-gus
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I was asked to help with some invasive plant removal in the CA Condor Preserve. We had to rappel down a cliff, cut/kill a bunch of tamarisk and then ascend the rap lines. The whole thing was video'd by the local paper.
The coordinator and I were ascending when I spotted a primary condor feather in a web. I asked him if it was legal to take it. He said because its molted. So I took it.
3 weeks later my phone rings, CA DFG. They saw the video and they were very interested in the part where I was putting the feather in my bag. They told me that if I can get the feather back to them by the end of the week that'd be fine. If I cant get it to them, $25k fine. I brought it in that afternoon.
Needless to say, all my fletchings are legally taken turkey.
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Gus,
What irratates me most about people that live in Texas is most of the land is privately owned, now that would not be bad EXCEPT the difference between the way we hunt and consider trespass is a whole lot different than the folks down there think. From what I have been repeatedly told ........ (an example) if I were hunting on public or private land and shot a animal that died on someones property and retrieved (without permission which I would do) it down there it would be considered poaching!! I have a serious issue with the definition of poaching down there. Poaching to me is to kill something out of season, spotlighting, no tag ect. Trespass to me is to go on someones land without permission...that is one crime...BUT THAT DOES NOT CONSITUTE POACHING, even if you kill a animal. Bet that made your eyes bug out.
In a lot of the southern states TEXAS being the worst in my mind people will say......shooting a deer, or retreiving one that was legally shot is "poaching" We fundementally up here do NOT see that as poaching, it is trespass....yes, still a crime, but when I hear guys say.....you are stealing from me if you shoot a deer here.....uh excuse me stealing from who??? They are state animals NOT private stock. I also realize there are ranches down there that do have private stock.....I have often wondered how wild deer have become private stock for ranches, who the heck sold state animals to private ranches should be hanged with a sign that reads "I POACHED FROM THE PEOPLE."
Sorry for the rant, but it plain irratates me.....be glad to have a drink with you....meet you at the state line :laugh:
VMB
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i always thought Texas was one of the least restrictive states
In a lot of the southern states TEXAS being the worst in my mind people will say......shooting a deer, or retreiving one that was legally shot is "poaching" We fundementally up here do NOT see that as poaching, it is trespass....yes, still a crime, but when I hear guys say.....you are stealing from me if you shoot a deer here.....uh excuse me stealing from who??? They are state animals NOT private stock. I also realize there are ranches down there that do have private stock.....I have often wondered how wild deer have become private stock for ranches, who the heck sold state animals to private ranches should be hanged with a sign that reads "I POACHED FROM THE PEOPLE."
being a Texan i don't think that it should be considered being poaching and in my opinion there are probably many Texans that would agree on that point
it probably would a good idea to get permission from the owners of any property you plan to hunt on it is their land after all
but if you not hunting on their land then and a animal you shot wanders onto theirs then in in my opinion it should be fine because if i remember correctly you are obligated to pursue and retrieve that animal to the best of your ability
as for the "game ranchers" if they have at least somewhat contained them and taken care of them for awhile then they should be count as their stock
also i think its a good thing that most of the land is privately owned down here
and i think that's all have to say right now because anything that comes to mind would be straying into politics and even religion somewhat too