Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: huisme on December 21, 2014, 04:33:41 am
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I've used dynema 97 for forever and it's never been the end of my bows, even when my cousin dry fired his molle from two inches of overdraw (still shooting, poor thing ::) )
Not trying to start arguments, just wondering what y'all have seen yourselves. Someone was concerned that I send a dynaflight string with their bow and only took comfort in my experience with the stuff.
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Nope...
Only string probs I've ever had were slipping bowyers knots and serving opening up on continuous loop strings.
Only when tillering heavy warbows have I seen strings cutting into the wood with Yew.
Del
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I've cut a few strings while tillering with the edge of a scraper, but that is not the strings fault, is it? No other problems, but I use b50. Russ.
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I've cut a few strings while tillering with the edge of a scraper, but that is not the strings fault, is it? No other problems, but I use b50. Russ.
He said high performance strings. >:D
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huisme,
I have read (somewhere and more than once) that normal shooting of a self bow with a fast flight string can harm the bow. If you don't object, I will add to your thread the question: aside from cutting into the wood, what would be the theory behind such a concern? Of course, the FF does not stretch as much--but once the bow is braced, with equal arrow weight, why would that hurt the bow? Harsher and less forgiving vibration perhaps?
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Been shooting FF strings with my bows for near 20 years and never a problem one. I was told not to, for various reasons, but didn't heed the advice, and I am convinced it was just group think at the time.
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I think it's easy for unsubstantiated ideas to gain traction the bow making world (and everywhere else!). One person has a belief and tells it to everyone who asks who then go on to tell others. All it takes is a couple charismatic people to really push an idea forward and before you know it everyone is saying the same thing. We've all heard that fastflight is bad for wooden bows but we've pretty much never heard or seen that this is the case. But we've all seen countless bows that have performed just fine with fastflight. Even if a bow does get damaged while using fastflight can we really know that fastflight was the culprit or just poor wood/design/craftsmanship?
How many other things do we pass along as gospel that are perhaps worthy of consideration?
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For years I have read horror stories about FF on trad bows but, I never met someone who had issues firsthand. After many folks on this board started using it I tried it and never went back. IMHO the FF material is longer lasting, quieter and due to its smaller diameter easier to fit self nocks to. I have been using DF97 for the past 5 yrs. with no issues on bows with and without tip overlays.
Sean
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A drawn bow is 7/8 broken???
{EDIT} I was just informed by a highly charismatic bow making guru that all of MY bows are indeed 7/8 broken. My bad.
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A drawn bow is 7/8 broken???
" Fully drawn", which virtually no bow is.
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I think it's easy for unsubstantiated ideas to gain traction the bow making world (and everywhere else!). One person has a belief and tells it to everyone who asks who then go on to tell others. All it takes is a couple charismatic people to really push an idea forward and before you know it everyone is saying the same thing. We've all heard that fastflight is bad for wooden bows but we've pretty much never heard or seen that this is the case. But we've all seen countless bows that have performed just fine with fastflight. Even if a bow does get damaged while using fastflight can we really know that fastflight was the culprit or just poor wood/design/craftsmanship?
How many other things do we pass along as gospel that are perhaps worthy of consideration?
That's exactly what I've been thinking ever since the incident. The one guy I've talked to who claims he's seen Angel strings break bows describes glue failures, not cut nocks, and so I am lead to believe the old glue, as opposed to the old wood/gla**, was not up to the more abrupt stop.
huisme,
I have read (somewhere and more than once) that normal shooting of a self bow with a fast flight string can harm the bow. If you don't object, I will add to your thread the question: aside from cutting into the wood, what would be the theory behind such a concern? Of course, the FF does not stretch as much--but once the bow is braced, with equal arrow weight, why would that hurt the bow? Harsher and less forgiving vibration perhaps?
That's what I'm thinking, less give in the string means a more abrupt stop right?
Well, I've beat bushes with my bows, dropped them, sat on them, hit branches upon release because I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings, and I even stabbed a few sandbags with a molle lever to see what would happen. I think little/no stretch in a string is nothing compared to some of the abuse you can put a bow through.
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Iuse fast flite strings. I have had a few problems with self nocks on osage where it cut in to the bow, now I prefer to use nock over lays or pad the loop area a bit. I prefer to shoot barefinger so I will sometimes mix a little linen with the fastflite for a larger diameter string and I like the look better on a primitive bow. I have never had the no stretch aspect of stings cause a problem with the bow stopping too fast or anything related to no stretch.
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Yes, I have had one problem while using it on a red oak log stave and that's all it took for me to never use FF or its variant.
I'd tell you the problem but it sounds like everyone has made up their minds anyway.
The problem would only be my fault. :)
Jawge
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I think the thin diameter on the string nock is more the problem than the material when it cuts into the wood
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Yes, I have had one problem while using it on a red oak log stave and that's all it took for me to never use FF or its variant.
I'd tell you the problem but it sounds like everyone has made up their minds anyway.
The problem would only be my fault. :)
Jawge
I'm not gonna give you any trouble if you want to give your side; so far it's all been one hand clapping. There's an inherent value to a thought-out differing opinion.
Brad, do you mean thinner string?
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What Brad said. It cut through a nock upon stringing. I've never had that happen....until I decided to get modern. :) Jawge
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Jawge, I admitted to the same thing, I have had it cut through self nocks. I won't use skinny strings on self nocks period anymore.
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no need to get modern now Jawge,,we dont need a fast flight to shoot an arrow,, :) :)
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Makes sense to avoid it if it's happened to you. I wonder what's different.
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Very few people on here do self-nocks these days, huisme. Overlays are popular. I never liked them much.
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I'd say about half my non-molles have overlays, which actually means the vast majority of my bows have overlays, so I'd say you're right. I do tend to just like thin ones to cover the back, though, not really back nocks per-say. Why don't you like them?
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They're usually a heavier exotic wood and I feel that extra weight at the nocks can cause hand shock and slow the bow down, huisme.
I just don't see the point of them except to shoot a fast flight string. So the extra time to do them allows for the use of FF but the heavier nock looses FPS. Break even? Kind of ironic.
More importantly, I like my bows to at least have the appearance of a Native American bow. As far as I know they did not use overlays.
They are pretty though.
Besides, I'm becoming a grumpy old curmudgeon and I hate change. :)
Jawge
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Jawge, Polyester is actually a modern material, your old poly/cotton sweats do not make it primitive.
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I know, Pat. We were on the subject of overlays when I made that comment.
Tough to keep up? :)
I don't care what strings people use or if they use overlays.
I was giving my personal opinions about what I like to do and why...reluctantly I might add because I figured the fast flighters would gang up on me and make fun of my sweats.
Jawge
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Well George, your sweats do look funny >:D
Makes sense, my flat overlays are pretty much decorative where back nocks make it easier to give molles narrow tips like these, though I have done several with extra rings left on the tips.
(http://i.imgur.com/DFz3VsI.jpg)
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Overlays allow a lighter tip, despite the use of heavier material as the reinforcement.
I'm only making fun of your sweats not being all cotton.
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See, huisme. You sucked me into this conversation. I knew it! Now I have to contend with the fashion police, the overlay police and the string police.
I don't hunt with a back quiver either. You guys want to take off on that too? :)
Funny thing is... We were going to a Christmas concert tonight. I was wearing nice fashionable jeans, and a green sweater over a red jersey. Outer wear was a black coat and red scarf. Nice hat too.
My daughter said, "Dad, you may want to wear some black shoes instead of those gray sneakers."
But I don't care because the Pats beat the J..E..T..S...Jets!
Jawge
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Well I've been making a bow quiver from boiled bamboo and strips of leather: no judgement from me.
I'm more a molle cultist, I'll letcha know if I see any string or o'lay coppers-- but you're stuck with those sweats man O:)
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I have never had a problem with FF strings (10-14 strand)....well, I have, but nothing related to nock damage, overlays or not;-).
I use nock serving (waxed linnen thread) on some of my loops, but that is mostly because I like a stiffer loop.
On white wood bows I do see dents in the wood, but that happens with all string materials.
Cheers
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Funny thing is... We were going to a Christmas concert tonight. I was wearing nice fashionable jeans, and a green sweater over a red jersey. Outer wear was a black coat and red scarf. Nice hat too.
Jawge
Pics or it didn't happen.
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Sweats are comfy but I do dress when I go out LOL. :) Jawge
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I think you probably spray painted sweats and sneakers to look like a more formal outfit.
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yes the thinner string
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I'm confused now, so please forgive the possible newbie question here: I thought that nocks was the term for the end of the arrow touching the string, does it also refer to the notches for the strings too? I guess it does, I'm just trying to clarify. Now that I think about it, I have used the term "string nocks" to refer to the string grooves as well, but I got confused in this thread.
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Yes, arrows and bows have nocks. Jawge