Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Easternarcher on September 30, 2012, 07:32:24 pm
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Getting ready to sinew back a Turkish horn bow, but I've never worked with the stuff before...so how fine should I be shredding the sinews? I have quite a few, so I don't need to scrimp.
Thanks
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For a horn bow you should distribute the sinew evenly with the same amount(physical weight) on both limbs. For good coverage I think the strands should be pretty fine. Contact James Parker(Ropbustus). He is our Asiatic horn bow expert with quite a few of many different styles, under his belt.
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I take the sinew down to strands around the size of a pencil lead or smaller. I don't make hornbows so I don't know if it is different with them.
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I always took my down to about the size of the 8 oz. fake sinew size. Thats about the size of 3 sewing treads swisted together.
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Nice and fine is the key to getting a really smooth finish on hornbows. Make sure the back(sal section) is flat when you have finished.
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see these asian guys combing it out with a super fine comb then aranging it into long sheets that are ready to apply. What kind of comb are they using?
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I use a pet shedder comb. It does pull alot out of the bundle, but whats left is angel hair soft and goes down flat and unnoticable under skins....or not. The flatter and smoother the matrix of glue and sinew is the better it will work for you.
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im with mike on the sinew being fine to get a smooth finish on your sinew,, but if it has been worked down too fine, you may have more glue in the mix than you might want, then the glue will be doing a lot more work than the sinew,,, so far from all the composites ive built , i realize their ma be a happy meadium between the two, i had a very old chinese horn bow and it was very smooth across the surface and it had sinew that was very large , the size of large spaghetti, and that was when it was fully cured, no telling how big it was when freshly put on.. i break mine down to a little bigger than pencil lead size when its dry then it swells when wet. let us know how it goes no matter what you do .james
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Thanks for all the tips....I'll let you all know how it goes.
Still got a lot of pounding to do.
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I have a question for all of you and I don't feel it's stupid although it may be. The back sinew that I process came off of the animal in one beautiful long sheet. It did a tremendous job of holding the back together while the animal was alive. It wasn't uneven, it didn't warp, never failed. Why should I shred it to make thread? Why can't I just lay it out in sheets that have already proven to be effective? Aren't we only making work for ourselves by trying to figure out something that mother nature has already proven works?
OK, let me have it, I'm ready.
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Fred, I'm no expert but.....the sinew needs to be dried first as I understand, so back sinew or leg sinew will shrink and shrivel to some degree...Would likely be very difficult to keep it flattened out.
As for me, I only have leg sinew, so they appear as long cables of material once dried and need to be pounded to separate the fivers. from there we reduce the strands to the sizes mentioned her to better saturate with glue in manageable bundles.
How am I doing guys? :)
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Agreed but, the back sinew is a completely different ballgame. Soak it in room temperature water and lay it out on a towel to absorb the moisture. It flattens out again just like the back of your bow. Why shred it? Personally (not from experience yet) I wouldn't think you could improve on it by tearing it apart and then trying to piece it back together like a puzzle.
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Ya, maybe you're right....I dunno.
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I might be completely wrong on this, but I think it's normally shreaded so the end of the fibers overlap each other, like how bricks are staggered. If you have two sinew fibers meeting each other end to end, you have a weak spot. By staggering the fibers, the tension strength of the sinew is more uniform. If we were able to get a sheet of sinew as long as a bow, I think it would work great.
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Fred, there is a lot of connective tissue in leg and back sinew that should be removed before the sinew is glued down. Each of the individual strands in a sinew bundle go different areas, ie. muscles, bone. By seperating the strands you can unite them to all work together to strengthen and add cast to your bow.
I prefer to use back sinew for bow backing because I can get a neater, more even layer of sinew for the backing.
James didn't mention it but he lays his glue saturated sinew out in sheets the size of the limb and smooths it out before adding it to the limb. This assures a smoother, more even layer of sinew giving the maximum potential from the sinew. James' sinew backings looks as slick as glass.
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Pat I appreciate your input and understand what you're referring to with the twist and what might be waste. Who is James?
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James Parker(Robustus). He posted earlier. James has made many Asiatic horn bows and builds them the way they were built originally, using the same materials or a close proximity as the originals...and he is as generous with his knowledge as the day is long. ;)
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Thanks again Pat. I haven't been here that long and sometimes the questions get answered with conflicting testimonials. And now I know who James is. Actually I've known about James for quite some time but never connected the name and the face if you know what I mean.
Thanks for the input James!
I'm still going to attempt this endeavor and may even put the back sinew on wet directly from the locker before it has time to completely dry out and shrink.
You guys can be the judge and jury on this one and I am open to criticism and advice, especially advice.
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sinew must be prepared before using on composite bows,, i have used leg and back sinew, the leg sinew will always be softer after preping, although the leg tendons will work , it is much more coarse, and takes more time and a little different technique for it to end up the same way after application,, as far as laying down a whole sheet of backstrap sinew,it just wont work,first you will have to remove the mylar sheathing from the outside of the sinew,, this can only be done after the sinew has dried( the thin see through membrane you see while your working the sinew down to size),even if you could get all the membrane off the sinew without disrupting the sinew strand, when you dipped the sinew in your glue it would only be on each side of the piece,and would not be sufficient to hold everything together,, this is why you have to break the sinew down,so when it is dipped in glue ,everything will bond and become one whole homogenous entity, Adam Karpowicz book Ottoman Turkish bows is a must read,, also he can explain this in a more sientifical manner,, fred you did ask a legitimate question hope this will shed some light,,,,,,,,,,,, james
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Thats another good point and I have wondered about...
When you see a drieD leg sinew, it has that transluscent appearance (mylar)....once you pound that tendon down, that semi-transparent look disappears and turns white from the seperation I assume...
Do you need to remove any of this outer membrane and only use the ropey strands inside or is it the same stuff a sinside and to be used as such once shredded? Looks to be rather difficult to seperate the two areas when I pull the cords apart.