Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half-eye on December 04, 2009, 11:59:28 am
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Hello,
Just joined up and thought I'd introduce myself. I'm a couple days older than dirt, got one good hand and one good eye and have been bowhunting since 1962. (Shakespeare "rifle-shaft" arrows ring any bells) Started "rolling my own" about 1973, both bows and arrows. I'm blessed with extrodinarily fine bow wood up here in Northern Michigan and as a consequence, have been making self bows (no backing, one piece, etc.,etc.) and my favorite (lately) arrow wood is Black Ash.
My general philosophy is that anyone who loves archery is a friend of mine. I try to build a bow and set of arrows for any youngster in the area who otherwise could not afford to get some, and I will share whatever knowlege I may have with anyone that might benefit from it.
Thought I'd attach some photo's of a few bows, and as you can plainly see they are "not for pretty" but they are hell for stout and will out-live me. I want to read all of the posts to get to know you folks....but so far ya seem like a lively bunch to me.
half-eye
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nice to meet ya, i think you'll love it here
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Welcome to PA Halfeye. From what I can tell from your small pics, it looks like you do a fine job.
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Welcome half- eye,sounds like you should fit right in with this bunch. :)
Pappy
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Welcome to PA half-eye. When you say northern michigan I'm hoping you mean yer a yooper like me eh :)
Or do mean to say ya live under da bridge because den yer not really in da north but kinda in da middle donchano eh :D
And ya know what us yoopers call useguys that live under da bridge ;) >:D
Either way good to see anther Michigander on here :)
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Always great to see another fella with lots of good experience. More smarts for the pool. Welcome to the site. Wondering if you'd be able to enlarge those pictures you posted? It looks like some really fine work. Which eye is good? I lost my left in an accident at 19, so I'm with ya, doesn't slow me down though - accept for catching car keys on a short toss and curve balls. I do miss hitting curve balls. Oh well, that's life. Look forward to seeing your posts.
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welcome Half eye, i'm a new member myself just getting started with the fine arts of the trade craft so to speak. i'll look forward to your contributions. i'm kinda starting with an empty cup here myself. :-[
Kirk
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half-eye, nice to meet you. Welcome! Great looking bows and arrows. :) Jawge
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welcome to PA... nice bows and arrows! :) -josh
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Welcome! - would you mind reposting your pics format 640x480; I'm sure that's some great stuff you got there...!
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Greetings Half-Eye,
Looks like you have a wide breadth of knowlege in archery and bow building,
look forward to seeing some larger pics of your work:)
zeNBowyer:)
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Welcome half-eye, good to meet ya. Im with you, anyone thats into archery is a friend of mine.
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Thanks for the resposes, I will reformat the pics....the originals were way to big so the computer at PA had some real bad words for me. I'll get working on that right away. It's a new learning curve for me. Thanks again....by the way my right eye is bad but I'm left eye dominant and shoot right handed....and as long as that string will still come back, it's all good! (yardage gets a little closer though)
half eye
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Howdy HalfEye,
Are you a UPp-er? I'm a displaced UPp-er living in SE WI. And, I have built a dozen or so bows, and I just finished carving out my third kid's bow. Kid's bows are also becoming my favorite bow to build because the kids enjoy them so much. Kid's imagination is a powerful weapon by itself, but when one adds a bow and a few arrows... Watch out!
I look forward to hearing about (and seeing) more of your work. Did you get out hunting this Fall? Any luck? Do you do any leather work; quiver(s) sheathes, bags, etc.?
Welcome aboard. (And, I hope you figure out how to post larger pictures to better share you bows.)
All the Best,
Canoe
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Welcome Half-eye, Like Pappy said, you should fit right in with this crowd. ;D Don't be afraid to show off some of your talents. Looks like you got some nice bows. ;)
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folks,
Let me try the photo thing again see if these show up larger, if not I'll take some other photos. If anyone getts ahold of dana please advise that the only reason I'm under da bridge is cause my swampers had old duct-tape on the soles,eh! and by the time that norwester was done I was clear off ta wilderness reef eh! But I do have a troll entry card that was vouched for by Bob Powell up in Newberry, eh!
Hope these pic's are better.
half eye
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wow, love those bows, especially that holmegaard! You should fit right in with these guys!!!! :) -josh
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Awesome pictures - that Ottowa bow looks interesting, do you have any more pictures of that one to get a good look, dimensions? Thanks for sharing.
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AAAH, much better!
(not only) the Ottawa bow looks great!
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Well those even look better than they did. I'm not sure I understood is that the way they talk in MI? :) Jawge
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Thank you for the questions. Parnell, I dont have any more photo's of Jay Sam's (Little River Band of Odawa) bow but will be happy to give you all the particulars on it, including the "why" it's shaped like it is. Those are not scallops per-sey, the bow is carved to represent the backbone of an animal. Canoe, yes I'm sure about the Black Ash, both for bows and arrow shafts. I'm including a photo of three mollegabets and a native bow, the bows are made of Elm, Black Ash (half grip), black Walnut and the unfinished bow is White Ash. The W. Ash bow is fully tillered and shot in...just need to slap some finish on it. There are also 2 photos of arrows. One shows how many types I make (everyone has their own likes) and the other shows some Black Ash hunting arrows I made for a friend.
The native bow draws 46@28, the Black Ash draws 46@28, the Walnut draws 51@28 and the White Ash draws 61@28 FYI
half eye
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Very nice bows!
Are all from boards?
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TBOD,
I make my bow staves by splitting out a piece thats like the Vikings did to make ship hull planks. It's like a horitzontal grain stave except I make the bow with verticle grain to the back and belly. If that's what you mean by a board bow then you would be correct. Since the right hand is now all screws and plates, a friend fully quarter-saws my sticks for me. Hope that answers your question. Oh, I use the same wood for my arrow shafts because the grain runs exactly true to the shaft and makes carving them out easier for me.
half eye
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The fourth bow is interesting. Please share more about that one. Any closeups?
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Jeff, If you are talking about the four bows in the single photo, the one at the bottom is the Viking bow (Mollegabet pattern) done in White Ash. It is a bow but I have not put any finish on it as yet. If that is the bow I would be happy to shoot some detailed photo's of it. I can also post a drawing (pattern) with dimensions if that would help you.
half eye
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Interesting, you prefer vertical instead of horizontal. Horizontal (plain sawn) is the same you get when you use the bark side as back, right?
Any reason for that? Some prefer the horizontal I have learned.
I saw a program of Vikingships yesterday, cool stuff.
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I apologize for the confusion. I was referencing the Jay Sam Ottawa bow. Good work on all of them !
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TBod and Jeff,
I prefer the verticle grain for two reasons, 1] I can lay out the bow with the grain running dead-straight down the length of the bow and 2] ever try bending an I-beam, the verticle grain does not need any help to be tough. I think that a pretty piece of grained wood is as "pretty" as I need to get, but you can still back it if you want....it will just get tougher. The last thing to consider is their (viking) longboats...thin planked, hull-first, and absolutely blue water worthy (as much or more abuse as a bow?)
Jeff, I don't have Jay Sam's bow (it was gifted to him) but I can draw you plans and dimensions etc if that would help?
half eye
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Welcome Half Eye. I thought you were going to say your name was "Lucky". ;D
You will fit right in even if you do live near them Yoopers. ;) Looking forward to sharing info with you.
Very nice bows and arrows!!! Pat
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TBod and Jeff,
I prefer the verticle grain for two reasons, 1] I can lay out the bow with the grain running dead-straight down the length of the bow and 2] ever try bending an I-beam, the verticle grain does not need any help to be tough. I think that a pretty piece of grained wood is as "pretty" as I need to get, but you can still back it if you want....it will just get tougher. The last thing to consider is their (viking) longboats...thin planked, hull-first, and absolutely blue water worthy (as much or more abuse as a bow?)
Jeff, I don't have Jay Sam's bow (it was gifted to him) but I can draw you plans and dimensions etc if that would help?
half eye
Yes, I'd be very interested. Thank you!
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Jeff,
Here is a simple set of drawings. Ottawa Bows were normally made of Ash. They were made anywhere from 36 to 48 inches long. These bows were unbacked, not painted (occassionaly small amount of paint), and they were often times incised carved. Often the bow was made from "split" ash with the grain verticle ( same as they would make a lacross basket or warclub head attachment. When the bows were unstrung they were truely unstrung and used a thin string keeper to hold the loop end of the string. The lower string end was tied on with several various types of knots. They strung, and unstrung their bows by pushing down on the upper limb while inducing a bend with the knee. You will notice that the design does not lend itself to sliding a loop down the limb. So if you want to do that you will need to redesign the limb tips.
In the drawing limb tip "A" is the one I made for Jay Sam, and "B" is the more common form (these were similiar to the Potowotomi style). The grip area is simply an elongated version of one of the vertabrae. These were left plain, wrapped in cordage, or wrapped with leather (the choice was personal to the owner)
I indicated the width of the stave as 1&1/2 to 2"....that allows you room to play with the depth of the scallops (if you dont make them real deep then 1 and a half inches is plenty) On the profile view the belly is a straight taper from the centerline to the tips. The dimensions given will give a draw weight that will hardly bend under you body weight so again there is plenty to "play" with. Also please note that the plan view (back of the bow) has NO taper from handel to tips.
The simplest way to go about this thing is to tiller in the bow first. Leave it at least 10# heavy (or target draw weight at 4" less draw length) then cut in your vertabrae and seperators. According to Jay Sam The number and size of these were determined by "eye" and was not any specific number of "back-bones". After you have the spine looking good finish tiller to draw weight and final dress the belly scallops.
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noticed that the drawing did not come through so here it is
half eye
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I'm truly impressed with your toys, glad you will be here for my next bow . welcome from one new guy to another !!, i love the elm bow in the first pics , that thing is really coming back ,the other bows are equally amazing also , thanks for all the great pics and info !!
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Half-Eye,
I made a hickory bow fairly close to the dimensions of that Ottowa and gave it a 'Choctaw" pattern according to TBB2. Also, I did a Potowatomi scalloped, but modified the dimensions, and paint.
If you do a search for my 'handle", (last name),i n bows, you'll find the posts.
I'm thinking, that Choctaw drawing that I did - the bow shot great. I gave it away to my real good friend. He just shot it this past week after having it for 4 months. Do you find any advantage to the scalloped edges, other than medicine and backbone?
The Potowatomi bow is actually my most acurate shooter, for me.
How long are your arrows for that bow? What are they made from? Do you do other work - arrows, knapping and stuff?
Don't mean to rush you.
Parnell
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Hi,
Just joined--sort of got a half eye myself. Enjoy building bent sticks and arrows. Still working on my aim. ;) looking forward to the learning curve. Have a great day!
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Welcome aboard Half-eye. Excellent work, I look forward to your future projects.
Nate
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Great looking bows half-eye, first time I've heard that scallops were meant to depict a backbone, never could figure out why they would do that.
Christmas is coming maybe Santa will bring ya some new swampers and a Da Yoopers CD eh ;D
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Welcome ,and you can bet we'll all be lookin' forward to seeing more examples of your work. God Bless
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TBOD,
I make my bow staves by splitting out a piece thats like the Vikings did to make ship hull planks. It's like a horitzontal grain stave except I make the bow with verticle grain to the back and belly. If that's what you mean by a board bow then you would be correct. Since the right hand is now all screws and plates, a friend fully quarter-saws my sticks for me. Hope that answers your question. Oh, I use the same wood for my arrow shafts because the grain runs exactly true to the shaft and makes carving them out easier for me.
half eye
Half-Eye....You may be a Troll ....but with an Ottawa Bow like Dat....I will Personally get you a Yooper Membership Card...ey!!
As for the Vertical Grain....whenever I make Paddlebows or Pottawatomie or Ottawa Bows I do the same as You with the Grain running from Back to Belly....nice Bows by the way....I am almost Jealous!!!
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Hello Half eye, nice to meet you, and all the best. I like your ash bows, there is a lota ash growin round here too, but white ash!!! might give it another go!!
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Thanks, one and all (except fer dat dana) First I'd like to extend my apologies to George T, you asked a question and I didn't answer and that my friend is just plain rude.....You are getting yer leg pulled, eh! Dat dana youpper is going back to wild, heck round here we know fer a fact dat dey gots anti-aircraft set up fer Santa dats why there swampers gots thin soles on 'em.
Parnell all my arrows are the same for all my bows, i.e. 29" bare shafts (self knocks and hafted heads come out shorter than glue on knocks and heads) I usually draw the same (realitively) all the time, but will "short stroke" occassionally if the bow stacks more than I can pull. Yest I make my own quivers, arrow shafts etc. but I dont knap stone or such. DRFishon because I'm eye imparied and cross-eye dominent I took up shooting like this.....I bend slightly at the waist, with an "open" stance to the target, and as I bush my bowhand toward the target I draw the string to a floating anchor point (this is without thought and I draw to what's comfortable) I have found that this method allows you to use your right brain, you dont get messed up with that whole aiming point thing, and your on-board computer will put those arrows right where you want them. Actusally, when I shoot I can only see the target spot....then the arrow just appears when it hits....if you see anything else (don't sneek a peek at the arrow) then your left brain is going to chime in with "is yer anchor right", are you steady enough< etc. etc. That is how I shoot....works great for me at the 20 yards I limit myself to.
El Destructo and Dragon Man, Our hardwoods here in the northern lower have really close grain (slow growth) because of the harsh winters ( we average 200+ inches of snow a year ) same goes for the elm, black ash, walnut, white ash, grey elm, ironwood (hornbeam) etc. etc. You get into that tight verticle grain and it's like a nearly perfect bow stave.....I really like it myself.
Hope I didn't forget anyone and thanks again for the kind words, this old hillbilly is about beet-red.
half eye
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You don't have to tell Me about 200+ inches of Snow....I grew up on the Shore of Lake Superior....in Marquette County, Da Heart of Yooperdom....you ain't seen Snow....till You see the Big Girls Lake Effect Snows........ :o
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As bad as the hunting has been this year Santa would do well to get some bullet proof vests for the reindeer as my freezer is still empty :o :D
Just so ya know I'm a southern yooper here in Manistique which lies right in da banana belt, we don't get much lake effect snow. Was in Marquette yesterday Mike they have maybe 2" of snow, at least its finally cold out and the deer are starting to move with week of muzzleloading left and if stays this cold should be able to go ice fishin next weekend :)
Half-eye if ya ever find yerself traveling East on US-2 going through Manistique get ahold of me eh, we could have coffee and shoot the bull :)
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dana,
Proud to my friend, by the way I got a nephew stationed at the MSP post there. I live in Mancelona (Antrim County) and our weather runs exactly the same as Newberry, i.e. Lake effect up to a tall indian's butt. I hear ya on those deer not moving much...just starting to now....but I have till Jan 1 to bend that bow on one of 'em. Get some meat in that freezer.
half eye
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Who's yer nephew at the post? Never know when I might need to drop a name to get out of a ticket ;) :) I live right behind the post.
Just came in from the blind, saw two squierrels and a partridge should have brought the 22 ??? I do hear wolves howwl every night
but according to da expurts their not the problem ::)
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dana,
His is name is Grel Rousseau, I'm his crazy uncle Rich. No such a thing as a wolf....there are only arrow quivers and bow covers on the paw!!!!!
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I know who he is :) Never met him but its a small town eh :)
As for the wolves I'm in favor of the 3 S's management method Shoot, Shovel, Shut-up ;D
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His Bows Again:
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Great looking bows! I'm interested in the mollegabet bow. i think most guys here know it as a holmegaard, are they generally the same? I have a friend her in minnesota that makes mollegabet bows, so i am curious what makes them different from a homegaard, or is it just a different name for generally the same design? thanks, Dan.
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Gopher,
No the Viking age bows are not the same. The real Holmegaard (found in Holmegaard Denmark) is shaped sort of like a skinny paddle bow (or you could say a fat-limbed long bow) they had a small "waisted" grip, the limbs had convex backs and realitively flat bellies. The Mollegabet pattern is the one with the wide working limbs and the "skinny" levers. The earliest forms of this type are highly Bi-convex (back & belly), the middle period were the same but they were lower bi-convex, and the later versions were bi-convex so little they were nearly like our american flat bows (flat back and belly). The Sweedish pattern (just found one in Sweeden about a year ago ( it's not on display yet at the national museum) and that bow a rigid handled "flat bow" straight tapered from grip fade to tip (both belly and plan view) the tip is rather wide maybe 1/2 to 3/4 and end in a pin knock.
Dont mean to get so technical but this is my understanding from some correspondence I had with the Danish National Museum. As far as I know most people call the mollegabet pattern a "Holmegaard" bow and that's ok with me....but ya did ask, sorry for the long winded answer. Actually I've been thinking about the Sweedish pattern and it might just be the forerunner of the Welch "short-bow"...nobody has ever recovered one of those....but they are described and the two sound like they are pretty similiar (the last is just a guess).
half eye
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Old Bow,
Don't know how you do that photo colage thing but that's slick....thanks
half eye
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Glad to have you join the brotherhood .. look forward to seeing more of your fine work... Hawk
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not long winded at all, i like that kind of explanation, especially when it seems as though most of us are using the wrong terminology, thanks!
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Welcome, and glad you found your way here. It looks like you bring a wealth of knowledge to this table. You have some very impressive bows.
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Welcome...
It's a good bunch to pitch in with.
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Thanks you guys. Gopher, I'm just an old guy that whittles wood, and you guys that do that also are welcome at my place anytime. I read a bunch of posts about that non-traditional stuff....and was thinking about backing out but changed my mind and thought to keep my mouth shut for once.
I only say that cause I don't give a hoot what my friends call stuff, what kind of bows they make, how they make them or any of that other stuff.....I feel a kinship with any person who sets down and hacks and slashes a bow/arrow/whatever and makes something with his/her hands.....I try not to judge anyone and a little encouragement goes along way.
half eye
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half-eye, you'll see as you stick around that the traditional/ non-traditional debate will come up about once a year. Depending on how many new people come on the site. You'll also see some of us grab the popcorn and watch the show till it runs out of gas. ;D ;)
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Mullet,
Just finishing up my second bag.....thanks
half eye
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yeah I have been here less than a year and I have seen it come up twice already. :) Kinda entertaining for the first 7 or 8 pages, there's name calling, and people gettin personal but it always comes to the same conclusion it seems like. Everyone just kinda agrees to each his own and then are friends again. Kinda cool. 8) -josh
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fella's
I think there is some interest in the Viking bows (Mollegabet pattern) so thought I send some pics. These are give-aways to some needy archers around here...you can see how the grips and tips is where I try to get @ person a little individuality. Hope they give you some ideas. Nobody should set home for lack of a bow to hunt with.....
half eye
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Thats some great looking bows Rich and real nice of you to give them away, I also have a habit of giving bows and stuff away :)
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Half-eye:
It looks like you have found yourself a home.
We are glad to have you.
Nice looking bows.
Pack up your rain gear :D and head south this May, to the Tn. Classic, and we can all meet in person.
David
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If I make it to the Classic this year I plan on going downstate this time, could be passing right by your house Rich
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Thanks guys,
Dana if you get anywhere near Mancelona let me know...glad to share some bourbon, cubans' or coffee and BS youre allways welcome! Mancelona is so big we got one traffic light...so dont get yer badself lost eh?
half eye
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Wife has a cousin in Traverse city area we get there once in awhile :)