Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Chippintuff on February 18, 2018, 03:44:24 pm
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Sasquatch came over and helped me select a tree and cut it yesterday. I hope to learn at least the basics of bow building before I use up the whole tree. Just a few minutes ago I split out a low quality stave and have taken a little off it. I said low quality because the growth rings in this stave are very tight together on the top end. Some of the other staves will have good thick growth rings, but it is better to do my worst blunders on a second rate stick.
I am planning to try to take off the white wood (1/2 inch thick) and chase the very first heart ring. That may be the only way I can chase a ring on this piece. Maybe the color change can help me stay on target without violating the ring. Does that sound like it might work?
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Welcome, and good luck!
What specie of wood are you working with?
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Osage. OOPS. I thought I had put Osage in that paragrph.
WA
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Ahhh, the good stuff!
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Good luck, I hope to do one of those one day so ill be following the thread.
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Sounds reasonable chip. When you get use to it you will be able to hear and feel the draw knife cutting through the early growth. I like to get to this crunchy stuff and then use scraper to remove it to get to the ring I'm chasing. It takes a little getting use to but you can do it. Do you have any tools? Is it still wet? You'll want to let it dry and if it's still wet after you remove bark and sapwood you'll have to seal the back and end with shellac or something.
Bjrogg
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Here's an old video that really goes into great detail on ring chasing with Osage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpPnlYj5NPc&t=11s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpPnlYj5NPc&t=11s)
I'm not affiliated with him in any way, I just like his methodology. Good luck with your bow :~)
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Sasquatch has helped me a little with ring chasing. I finished a scrap piece about 3.5 feet long today, and it looks fair. It's not as clean as what he did, but I found the ring. He told me about the draw knife chatter, and I'm finding it helpful in locating a ring.
He has also been teaching me about what wood is good, and what is not worth bothering with when good wood is available. I don't have to start on this thin ring stave, but I just want to try it out for future reference. If I can do it, then my confidence will rise, and i'll know better how to evaluate a stave per my experience at that time.
We chose a tree that was mostly straight but with a little twist in part of it, but I don't mind that, because it will give me some straightening experience. As you might guess, I'm starting on a stave that has a slight twist and some little crooks that I didn't see till I got the bark off.
H Gregory gave me a couple scrapers and a marker for tillering a couple years ago, and I'm using the scraper on this. I also have an old rock saw blade that I may convert into scrapers. I already had a worn out draw knife, but it will do for a starter. In my garage, I have two bench vises. I also have a chainsaw, sledge hammer, wedges and an ax. I guess I am pretty well equipped for a start.
When I was a kid many years ago, I cut the firewood for our home and have cut firewood and done clean-up work with a chainsaw off and on all my life. I am fair at splitting wood, but an experienced bowyer looks at a log differently than a man cutting firewood or fence posts, so I'm learning.
I'll get a few photos soon so you can see what I'm up to. Thanks for all the advice.
WA
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Here are some photos of the first stave. Top end 2.5" wide at sap wood, narrowed to 1 3/8" at handle and then widened a wee bit toward the base. I don't know why it narrowed after starting well. I expected it to remain the same width or get wider as it approached the base, but it didn't. It has a little twist and kinkiness, but that is probably not too bad. The toughest thing about it is the thickness of the rings. My hope is to be able to chase the very first heart ring. Maybe that way I will be less likely to get confused about which ring I am on. I think I will let this thing sit about two to three weeks before doing any more, because the wood is soft and stringy. Maybe a little drying will make it work better. It has Titebond II on the back and belly, but not on the sides. Tell me what you think.
Edit: on the end shown, I have shaved most of the sap wood off for the first few inches.
WA
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Looking good WA..
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I'm not the most experienced with Osage but it looks good to me except. You need to seal ends and back. You can leave belly unsealed so it can dry through the belly. The outside or "back" of bow won't dry to fast as shrink this way. When it dries faster than inside or "belly" it make drying checks. You could remove some wood from belly and belly would dry faster. Important to get it dry before you start bending it.
Bjrogg
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Chip we almost always tell our new guys that are waiting for staves to dry to cut more staves so you have them. Not more than you can get ready for storage but keep sticking them away when you can. Another thing you could do is build some cauls for shaping and straightening your bows. I'd recommend two. I use one for recurves and one for straightening and putting a little reflex in profile.
Find some clamps and a way to steam or a heat gun. A good Vice mounted solid is great. A tillering tree I prefer wall mounted with a pully system. Lots of things it's very nice to have when you start making bows. It sounds like your going to be making more than one so you might as well make the stuff that'll help you out.
Can't wait to see your creations.
Bjrogg
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Here are some photos of the first stave. Top end 2.5" wide at sap wood, narrowed to 1 3/8" at handle and then widened a wee bit toward the base. I don't know why it narrowed after starting well. I expected it to remain the same width or get wider as it approached the base, but it didn't. It has a little twist and kinkiness, but that is probably not too bad. The toughest thing about it is the thickness of the rings. My hope is to be able to chase the very first heart ring. Maybe that way I will be less likely to get confused about which ring I am on. I think I will let this thing sit about two to three weeks before doing any more, because the wood is soft and stringy. Maybe a little drying will make it work better. It has Titebond II on the back and belly, but not on the sides. Tell me what you think.
Edit: on the end shown, I have shaved most of the sap wood off for the first few inches.
WA
The first picture is a good example of ring ratio.........not saying a bow can't be made out of this stave, meaning it will be tougher to do.
The darker wood is the late or better wood, the light colored wood is the early or bad wood. The top half of the stave has a very bad ring ratio an the lower half has a better ring ratio but not great....
Can you see this??
It is going to be difficult to chase a ring on a the first half of this stave. But if you have the patience and the technique to chase a ring you can make a bow out of the top half , better chances of a better bow of the mid to bottom half if you have enough wood.
Hope You and I are on the same page .....
DBar
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Thanks for all the encouragement and advice.
My reason for using the first heart (dark) ring as the back is because I can identify it better than the others. What I anticipate is going very carefully when I am finishing off the sap wood and approaching the dark wood so that I do not violate the thin ring that will be the back. If I accidentally cut the very first dark ring, I may not be able to chase a ring after that.
I do plan to add another light to my shaving area that I can position to highlight the early wood "veins" making it easier to identify rings.
The problem with cutting down to the older wood where the rings are thicker is that the stave is not wide enough there when it gets away from that end, so I have to use the younger wood in order to have enough width.
Right now my garage is a big mess. That has to change in order to do any serious wood work in there. There is plenty space, but it is just not utilized properly.
As for staves, I plan to develop all the potential ones that I have. In a few days I will be cutting a Gum Bumelia tree. If there are any clean pieces in it, I may try to get some staves out of it if you think it might be good wood. From what I have read on it, it is very hard and good material for tool handles. Since the tree is small, and most of it is gnarly, I will probably be lucky to get one stave section.
I will go out there in a few minutes and shave the glue off the belly.
Edit: I did a little searching, and I think the wood I am looking at is also known as Buckthorn, but not the Cascara type of the Pacific Northwest. If so it is good bow wood, but I don't know how important it is to get down to heartwood.
WA
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WA, you will defiantly need to seal the back if you leave the sap wood on. You can make a bow from that, but those rings are close. You never know till you try. Sorry I couldn’t read how thick the rings were from the outside.
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Nathaniel, I have the bark off 4 staves and Titebond II applied to the sap surfaces. The grain inside runs oddly. The fact there was a dead spot in the tree is probably what made the grain funky inside the log. That's OK though. There are at least 4 more staves in the other 2 quarters. I would go ahead and begin trying to uncover one ring for a back, but the sap wood is just too stringy to bother with. I am a little bit optimistic that I can do it with these rings. If not, it's still fun taking the challenge. What I will do in use the draw knife till I get really close to the dark wood, then switch to scrapers.
I have an old diamond blade for cutting rock. What is the best way to cut it up to use for scrapers? I am thinking that I can use a side grinder, but it might get the metal hot enough to destroy any temper that is in it.
WA
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While these staves dry, I keep doing what I can to approach the actual bow making stage. All the staves have been debarked. A few have been shaped to very rough bow dimensions.
Here is one that I am puzzling with. One side of it was close to a dead part of the tree, and it has some worm holes. Do you think there is any way to get a 40-50# bow out of it? The longest worm holes (the ones that are completely hollow) may be posing too much of a problem. One of them is in the handle area, and I think it will be OK. The other is at mid limb. On both of them there is about 3/8" heart wood between the holes and the sap wood. One of my questions is would it be best to try to use some of the sap wood in order to get more thickness?
At present the limbs are laid out for 2" width. I can minimize the damaged areas by narrowing from the damaged side, but I don't know how extensive these holes are. I can stick the end of a paper clip about 1" deep into the open holes. That goes half way across the limb.
Is it better to plan on using this stave when I am ready to back one? I do not want to trash this thing till I know for sure it won't work.
The smaller worm holes that are filled with worm packing are mysteries at this point.
I have plenty other staves to keep working on.