Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Selfbowman on January 02, 2023, 09:30:13 pm
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69” target bow hopefully.🤠Just followed the grain but put my reflex in the ends.
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Pic
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I like the wiggles. Will be watching to see what a good bowyer will do with it.
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On the heat bench.
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Trying something I tried some time back. Followed the grain from the split on the stave. Laid bow out from there. Then I put a metal ban down the center of the bow . Marking beside it. Pic
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The slashed section will be thicker. The part that wiggles out from center will be thinner in thickness. It helps the limbs keep from twisting during the draw. I think anyway.🤠should help in shock also.
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For the guys that heat by color is this about right?
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I'm not ignoring you Arvin, but I don't understand complicated stuff when it comes to building bows. The center line/thicker limb thing is beyond me. sorry I do know that I see quite a variety of colors when guys heat treat... I'd ask Marc since is is the authority on that. You are a bow building machine... :)
BTW- I just read somewhere that it is Badger's birthday today!
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Well Happy Birthday Badger!!!! Bow b it’s more of a gut feeling. I you follow the grain that’s great but if it gets out of a straight line I feel it has a tendency to warp the bend in a bow. Just like a glass bow that has set on the end leaning in the comer strung for some years and the limb gets twisted. Now it’s a junk bow. I could be wrong. I often am. So I got the back finished and rubbed in by the shaft tamer and now for tip overlays and start the tiller. I think I’ll name it little wiggle.
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Color tells nothing of proper tempering. I can hold a heat gun about 1" away and make it look just like that in 20 seconds and it would do nothing for the bow. Or, I can hold the heat gun 3-4" away and it heats through the limb and looks like that after many minutes. The average bow should take no less than an hour to temper.
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Pearl I learn something everyday. Thanks
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Back is finished except for light sanding and finish.tip overlays on and now for the tiller
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It looks like a nice piece of wood... good luck!
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Bob it was a good stave. I could have Made it straight but just decided to go with the flow.m
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Color tells nothing of proper tempering. I can hold a heat gun about 1" away and make it look just like that in 20 seconds and it would do nothing for the bow. Or, I can hold the heat gun 3-4" away and it heats through the limb and looks like that after many minutes. The average bow should take no less than an hour to temper.
I think Del said it best. If your not bored out of your skull before your done your doing it wrong.
Bjrogg
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I like that!🤠 or drunk
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Color tells nothing of proper tempering. I can hold a heat gun about 1" away and make it look just like that in 20 seconds and it would do nothing for the bow. Or, I can hold the heat gun 3-4" away and it heats through the limb and looks like that after many minutes. The average bow should take no less than an hour to temper.
I agree with this too. Slower the better. I may have missed it but what kind of wood is this. Osage?
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Osage of course
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How many of you guys had this happen while just setting on the tiller board and strung.scared the do do out of me🤠. Getting close about 47@21no set yet but this is where it raises its ugly head. Looks like I may end up with contentious growth ring on back and belly except for at the fades on the belly.
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That's probably not the best way to take weight off the tips!
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I’ll say this I didn’t like it.🤠
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Mark this one has real rectangular limbs. No trapping rounded the edges by compressing the edges with a shaft tamer. We will see how it comes out and I can give you précis measurements in 2”increments.maybe the machine can tell us where I left the mass out . Otherwise it’s me over straining during tiller.
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Just had a tip overlay let go on the tree at 29”. Scared the **** out of me. I got too close with heat and weakened my ea40.
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Ok tip overly redone . Tillering nice to 21”45#. I’m trying something new. I’m going to heat treat at this point. Do any final heat a judgments needed. I put the Popsicle sticks under the back and heat as I go. Hopefully the popsicle will slide with even pressure when done. I spend some time with this if I going all out on a bow. Now I will go back to the tiller tree. And ease into the last 7” of draw.
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Moisture in s blinking 6%. Chart says blinking is below 5.5%
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It looks like yet another nice bow...and a grand experiment. One reason it takes me longer is that I never work on tiller the same day I heat bend or heat treat. I have been told that the wood needs to re-hydrate and equalize to your climate.
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Yes Bob I agree with what you said. This stave was that dry in the beginning. Been hot and dry here for some years. What should I do throw in the horse trough for a couple hrs. This is it after heat treat.
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It looks nice Arvin.
I have heard a lot of people say that heat treat doesn’t seem to help Osage that much. I’m not sure. I heat treated my “Simply Orange “ bow . It was the first Osage bow I ever made. It still had some black on the belly after I was done tillering. That bow has been hunted with. Dragged around in my pickup and worn out two strings. It still holds its original unbraced profile.
I don’t know if it makes as much difference with Osage. I can feel a little difference working the wood after heat but not like when I do HHB. Heat definitely changes HHB.
I still think if done properly and at the right stage in the build. I think it helps Osage too.
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BJ I feel in this case the heat was used to let the grain straighten it’s self when we get close. I found that the popsicle stick thing helps get the bow blank to fit the caul more even. Sliding the popsicle stick getting even tension as it goes . The more tension as you go it requires more heat and another popsicle stick thick as you apply the heat .
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Ok I tillered out to 21” heat treated and finally straight thru the bow I hope. Touching feeling guys might go away at this point. But I bought a digital caliper here are the results in thickness and width. Pardon my scribble. I started 0 two inches from the string knock. That part don’t bend much at all. I’ll show pics of the marks on the bow. I’ve been striving for perfect diminishing mass for years. I think that’s where it’s at in performance for some reason. Not sure why . Maybe Alan, Jim, or Mark can crunch some numbers for me. Guess at future set and or bow draw weight where she sets know. I can do a force draw to 21” if need be . I have checked the spot in the chart that I think might need to be removed before I proceed much farther.
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Ow pic
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Pic
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I am going to cut a 1”x1” cube from the belly drop. Round four edges as I did the limbs. These growth rings are real even in thickness. I will give the weight.
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Point 0.5 oz
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That’s about as good as I am at touchy-feely 🤠
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Correction 41#@21” That’s with string on no set.
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I don’t know which one is right?
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That is some very high density osage. Specific gravity is at least 0.92 (57.5 lb/ft^3).
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But I bought a digital caliper here are the results in thickness and width. Pardon my scribble.
Arvin, that's awesome! How on earth did you discover millimeters in Texas? :o ;D
Just for future work, normally the 0 point is taken as the center of the bow and the numbers run out to the nocks. I don't know if I have time this weekend, but I will punch those numbers into David Dewey's spreadsheet and see what it has to say. I can't add in the tip reflex, but it will give me an idea of how those look for a flat bow.
I don’t know which one is right?
A few things for weighing the pieces.
1) You don't want the rounded edges, you want a true cube (or rectangular prism) to be able to calculate the volume accurately.
2) Try the scales in grams instead of ounces, they are a much finer unit and lead to better precision.
3) You also want to make your piece as big as you can so you aren't trying to weigh something that is so light the scale can't feel it. In general, try to be over 1% of whatever the maximum scale capacity is. Another thing that helps with light pieces is to put something heavier on the scale first and zero the readout with that on the scale, then weigh the test piece from that new zero point. Most scales are not very accurate at the extremes of their range and putting something on to get yourself into the middle of the range usually gives better results.
4) Weigh the piece 5 times and average the results if you get different numbers each time.
Mark
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Correction 41#@21” That’s with string on no set.
I missed this. Is this with the bow braced? Brace height?
Also, your bow center point will be 31.5" by your coordinate system?
Mark
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Mark, Arvin's bows are typically 69" long.
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Here is bigger piece.113.85 mm x 38.73x21.09. 82 g add the 1x1 without the rounded edges 98g
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Correction 41#@21” That’s with string on no set.
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This Mark
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Pic or this bow compared to my wide pyramid selfbow that set records. I traced my wide pyramid at brace. Cut out the plywood and screwed it to my caul, the bow took little set. This bow is close to the same profile. It might be interesting to see if I can duplicate the strung profile and get the same draw weight. This bow is 69”vs 67” of the old bow. I might have to build a 67” also.
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Where you see the tracing behind the bow is where I will remove the mass. Ok Alan and Mark from the chart would this make since?
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This bow is 69”vs 67” of the old bow.
Ok, good. So the center is 32.5" based on your coordinate system. What was the brace height?
Where you see the tracing behind the bow is where I will remove the mass. Ok Alan and Mark from the chart would this make since?
Unless the width/thickness distribution is exactly the same between the two bows I don't think you want the same braced profile.
Mark
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8” from back of handle. I don’t normally measure it there but in this case it might be easier..
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I strung little wiggle and set it on my tillering tree. I marked where the bow did not meet up with my traced record bow. Meaning where the mass is to be removed. I unstrung the bow took it to the bench and compared it to where I made my check marks on my chart. Thinking those numbers needed adjustments. And they con-sided where the mass needed to come off. Maybe there is something to this math stuff!🤠🤠🤠
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Eric’s Gessmo on the out side of the limb.🤠🤠🤠
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But I bought a digital caliper here are the results in thickness and width. Pardon my scribble.
Arvin, that's awesome! How on earth did you discover millimeters in Texas? :o ;D
Just for future work, normally the 0 point is taken as the center of the bow and the numbers run out to the nocks. I don't know if I have time this weekend, but I will punch those numbers into David Dewey's spreadsheet and see what it has to say. I can't add in the tip reflex, but it will give me an idea of how those look for a flat bow.
I don’t know which one is right?
A few things for weighing the pieces.
1) You don't want the rounded edges, you want a true cube (or rectangular prism) to be able to calculate the volume accurately.
2) Try the scales in grams instead of ounces, they are a much finer unit and lead to better precision.
3) You also want to make your piece as big as you can so you aren't trying to weigh something that is so light the scale can't feel it. In general, try to be over 1% of whatever the maximum scale capacity is. Another thing that helps with light pieces is to put something heavier on the scale first and zero the readout with that on the scale, then weigh the test piece from that new zero point. Most scales are not very accurate at the extremes of their range and putting something on to get yourself into the middle of the range usually gives better results.
4) Weigh the piece 5 times and average the results if you get different numbers each time.
Mark
Mark that caliper was made in China that’s why it has mm. That’s why I have it in Tx now.🤠🤠
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The chart pointed out the touchy-feely spots that needed removed.
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These numbers on the end of my caul are from center o f bow or caul.
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How's the bow doing now? (SH)
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Going to get back on it tomorrow probably. Been tied up with a engineer on another build.
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Ok Bob I got the bow 50@28. The bow shot 460gr 220yds into about a 2 mile an hour wind. Could be a contender but have a IBO shooter needing a bow so it will probably end up getting taken down to 44@ 28.when I finish it up I’ll post a few pictures. Right now it has taken 1/2” set. I expect more to come once shot a thousand times or so.
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Cool Arvin...I'm thinking that the design will make it an excellent target bow and the speed will be an added benefit for flatter trajectory. It will make your friend very happy! :OK
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I was told he did not want the wiggle bow.🤠 ok that bow may break a record. Some guys don’t know a good bow when they see one. Oh well.
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Here is both peek bows
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that wiggle bow is 'straight as a stick'... it just might be the one to set a record. :OK
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Arvin. If your buddy doesn’t want it I’ll take it! Looks like a great bow to me. I don’t mind a wiggle or two. Especially in my bows. Gives character
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that bow has less string follow then most of my staves after floor tillering (lol)
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Both of those bows are dead in the hand when shot. Both a dream to shoot.
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I'll bet you are right Arvin...you have improved your (already proven) design... :OK
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Little wiggle shot 485 gr. 173 ft per second. Shot 462 gr. 205 yds. That’s it boys.
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Those are some good numbers Arvin. It will last a long time and make a great hunting/3D bow that has nice manners when shot... Congrats! :OK
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I agree with Bob, those are good numbers, and good looking bow to boot.