Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pappy on April 04, 2007, 09:51:41 am
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I am about to attempt my first BL.bow and need some advice on dimensions.I had a guy give
me a BL board it was 36 in. long 8 in. wide and over 2 in. thick and I had thought about a
backed bow,but since I ant much of a backed bow kind of guy I was looking at it and the grain was prefect the way it was sawed so I cut in half and chased the growth ring on both half's and spliced it in the handle.I laid it out 17/8 at the fades to mid. limb and tapered to 3/8 at the tips.and cut it to 66 n-n.I want in the low 50's at 26in. so is this a good lay out or is it way overbuilt.Or would a straight tapper to the tip be a better set up.I have always heard the wood is bad about crystallizing on the belly and a pryamid would be easer to get a good tiller.Some advice please. :)
Pappy
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For me, who has ruined many many locust staves, I'd say overbuilt is the way to go. However, Jawge and Dave(Snedecker) would probably disagree. Locust, even though it is the strongest North American hardwood in compression, it is brittle and therefore suceptable to fretting...at least for me.
Take it real slow and don't stress the wood at all. Exercise it well between sessions and good luck. My only successful locust bow is 68 1/2" long, 1 1/2" at the fades with a slight taper to about 8" from the tips where it is 1" wide. Then tapering to long narrow tip(holmsgaard style). This bow I named "Sweetness" as per Jawge's suggestion, who is so successful with locust. Pat
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Hi Pappy, I made my first BL bow a couple months ago. Let me go thru the exercise and maybe something will come out of it. The bow is 71 inches long. It has the hour glass handle I like. At the fades it is 1 1/2 inches wide and is a reasonably straight tapper on the top limb and varies on the bottom because of a knot and a "HOLE". The tips are 5/8 inches wide. It is 5/8 thick at the fades and 3/8 at the nocks. As you can see I added a patch on the belly side to help offset the hole in the back. There are a few slight "hinges I guess" on the back but after 150 or so shots don't seem to have gotten worse. You can see them in the photo. The tiller is very good, little stiff at the patch, but it shoots good and is 47# @ 28 inches. I don't want to take anymore off the belly and drop the weight. I wanted it about 50-55# and I could have shortened it but it is just so smooth. I will have it at your Classic for you to look at and comment on. I am hoping to have Vinson with me as well as Pat B.
Dick
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Hello Pappy and Pat B. I am going to get some more BL and do a couple more of these. I will want to raise the poundage and see what gives. I still plan on keeping them 68 to 70+ inches long.
Dick
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Thanks, Pat. I've made quite a few BL bows. I'm pretty sure there are regional differences in the stuff. Northern BL is pretty good. The trouble is that it looks like osage so people assume they can use close to osage dims but you can't. I go wider and longer. I'd go at least 1 3/4 inches wide and at least 66 inches long for a 26 inch draw. Tiller well it can chrysal though I've had more ash chrysal on me than BL. Jawge
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The Native Americans here in New England favored BL, white oak and hickory. Jawge
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The only problems I've had with BL were chrysals in spots where it bent too much, my fault for getting in a hurry. I believe sometimes that going too wide with it can cause you to end up with thinner limbs which are easier to hinge. Like Jawge said, locust seems to be quite variable, even from one tree to the next. It's good wood, though, and heat bends just like osage. I don't have as much experience with it as some of these other guys, but about 1 5/8" seems like a good compromise width for locust. It also makes good bendy-handled Eastern Woodlands flatbows. Almost all the old Cherokee bows still existing are BL.
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Well my lay out is pretty close I guess,dose it need to be flat on the belly or should I round it a little.I make Osage and Hickory flat most of the time.Thanks for the replies it is a good looking piece
and I want to give it every chance. :)
Pappy
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Flat as a pancake. Or even trapped.
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Thanks guys,that's what I love about this place. ;D
Pappy
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Pappy, just treat it like any other white wood and it should be fine. It does tend to very a lot from tree to tree, Ive worked some that was nearly as good as osage and some that wasnt any where near. I think that is where steves (badger) formula thing for mass might work good...never tried it yet.
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ok thats a new term, whats trapped mean? ???
DanaM
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Dana, "trapped" means a trapezoidal limb cross section, where the belly is wider than the back. You would do this with some woods or laminated combos of woods where the back is likely to overpower the belly.
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Pappy, BL is not a whitewood. It is a heartwood. Sapwood should come off. Where you have a board you may want to consider a backing. The sapwood is white. The heartwood ranges from yellow-green to brown. Look at the board closely and see what you have. Jawge
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Jawge ,it started out a board,a very thick board,the sap wood is gone and I have chased the growth ring and some are right it looks a lot like Osage.What I did was turn the board into a stave I guess you could say.It would be the same thing now as if it came straight from log :) Pappy I am about to attempt my first BL.bow and need some advice on dimensions.I had a guy give
me a BL board it was 36 in. long 8 in. wide and over 2 in. thick and I had thought about a
backed bow,but since I ant much of a backed bow kind of guy I was looking at it and the grain was prefect the way it was sawed so I cut in half and chased the growth ring on both half's and spliced it in the handle.I laid it out 17/8 at the fades to mid. limb and tapered to 3/8 at the tips.and cut it to 66 n-n.I want in the low 50's at 26in. so is this a good lay out or is it way overbuilt.Or would a straight tapper to the tip be a better set up.I have always heard the wood is bad about crystallizing on the belly and a pryamid would be easer to get a good tiller.Some advice please.
Pappy
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I prefer the taper you described and laid out. When you are bringing the tiller in and need to remove wood from the width you can do that. Jawge
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Thanks Hillbilly for the explanation, I think I might try that on hickory backed BC I'm workin on.
DanaM
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Thanks Jawge,That's what I will do.
Pappy
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I have one BL self bow that is 63" long, 1 3/8 wide at the fades,out to a little past mid limb, and tapering to 1/2 " 4" from tip and to 7/16 at nocks that pulls 58# at 27" and took no set. That was from a stave. I ihave had some boards with much less power.
Dave
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Didn't get a chance to work on it this weekend,maybe this week.I will keep yall updated. :)
Pappy
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Go for a sinew backed 36" long Huppa designed bow. Get rid of the sapwood and dont worry about violating the grain on the back the sinew will compensate. Billy and Juniper Junkie know more about the design than I do. But I'm making one with the BL stave I have had seasoning for 3 or 4 years now. The bouquet on the BL is just perfect now. Well aged wood is like well aged wine! ;D
Now if I could just be patient enough with the rest of the woods I pick up! >:(
David T
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I'm reading with interest Pappy. There is nothing like BL for controversy. I'm coming into a large supply and I wonder if I even want to store it? Let us know.
J. D. Duff
PS, have you read 'Black Locust, Trash or Treasure' in Primitive Archer? Back issue--can't remember which one.
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I feel the same way JD,they either love it or hate it.I am going to give it a try.I think
66 long 1 78/ at fades tapered to 3/8 at the tips and see what happens.I have access to
lots of it also ,just never fooled with it.I want to see what it dose.Gary Davis made one last year and told me it made a great bow he used the design I talked about first.1 7/8 to mid limb and then taper to the tips. :)
Pappy
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Hey Pappy did you ever get around to finishing this one? I was interested in seeing it or hearing how it turned out. Personnally I like BL because it has a great dark honeycomb color to it and if you get it right it makes a nice shooter. It also helps that it grows everywhere where I am at, so free is great.
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Excellent thread, guys. BL is the main wood that I have close at hand for staves, and this has given much info. on it. Glad to hear northern Locust seams a bit better, as I'm from north central Wisconsin. If I can make the local stuff behave, it'll probably be my main stavewood. Now to go cut some! :)
dogleg
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If they are wide, they tend to get quite thin as it is a strong wood. And when they get thin and flat and wide, that's where I worry about hinges and chrysals entering the picture. I think 1 and 5/8" is best as Hillbilly suggested but am going to make a narrower one this winter.