Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: superdav95 on July 02, 2023, 06:59:45 pm
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Similarly like Simk I too have been the benefactor of getting to know Arvin and build a few bows based on his design. This bow is a tribute of sorts to the bow he sent to me and I tweaked a few things that were insignificant but added my own touches. This bow is 68.5” ttt and it pulls 50lbs at 28”. It is a heat treated hickory stave bow build backed with a boo strip. It’s about 1.3-1.4” widest point narrowing to about 3/8” or slightly less at the tips. I used Buffalo horn overlays and kept them smaller to reduce the weight. The speed I got from this bow was very good at 187fps on average at 9.2gpp. It retained about 4.5” reflex after shooting in. It’s mass is just over 600grams. I have not put a leather wrap on it yet but will do it soon. It shoots very straight and the deep shelf is near center shot. Quite happy with this bow. Here’s a few pics. Thanks for looking.
Dave
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Few more…
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so many outstanding bows! That boo backed hickory looks very fast... great work as always. :OK
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Another beautiful bow, very nice work. :)
Pappy
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Yep, looks awesome, and fast. Professional job.
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Thanks guys!
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Very nice bow, and sounds like quite a performer.
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lovely work... I can't help wondering how far it would throw a flight arrow :)
Del
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Beautiful bow! You are putting out some really nice bows! I love the full draw and your finish work is top notch.
I’m working on a similar BBH and have a few questions on your build. Is this one asymmetric? If so, how much longer did you make the top limb?
I’m hoping to use a hickory stave and was wondering how you flattened and prepared the back of the stave for the bamboo. Thanks!
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Another beautiful fast bow, as usual.
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The bamboo on the back looks awesome. Is that just dye rubbed in?
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The bamboo on the back looks awesome. Is that just dye rubbed in?
Thanks Aaron. Yes it’s leather dye rubbed in. I use a progressive approach going from lighter Colors to dark. I use heat gun for mild heat in between the different Colors. This keeps the creeping and bleeding of Colors to a minimum and allows you to rub it and blend it manually with a rag. It allows you to get the blend you want. I’ll use a fairly dry rag for this step. Hope this helps. I may have to post a short vid on how I do it maybe if there is an interest. I’m sure there is many ways to do this and get a good result. I also lightly sand the back of the boo to just remove a little of the film so the dye will penetrate in some spots. Cheers
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Another beautiful fast bow, as usual.
Thanks mike!
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Beautiful bow! You are putting out some really nice bows! I love the full draw and your finish work is top notch.
I’m working on a similar BBH and have a few questions on your build. Is this one asymmetric? If so, how much longer did you make the top limb?
I’m hoping to use a hickory stave and was wondering how you flattened and prepared the back of the stave for the bamboo. Thanks!
Thanks will! Yes go for it it’s a great combo and performs well. You can reach out to me in dm or email too. Yes it is asymmetrical with top an inch longer. Basically I use my fingers and a pencil to mark a fairly consistent line along the sides for the back removal of any crown to flat. I’ve used files wrasps for this and have used my belt sander for deeper crowns. You basically want to get it flat and scuffed well for glue up. I also use the belt sander for my boo strip. My poles are mosso poles which I get whole In 10 foot lengths. I’m sure the boo strips would be easier if you can get them. I found that the strips are more convenient for sure for these builds. I buy the poles myself instead as I like having the option of other bamboo bow builds like the 5 piece bows where wider limb pieces are used. I also lightly toast the belly of my strips too. This step may be unnecessary if you get good dry strips. I know guys that don’t toast the belly of their boo strips and have good results too. I just started doing this step as I know what it does for my other bamboo bow builds and helps remove excess moisture if any. Anyway going into way more detail here message me if you like. Cheers.
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lovely work... I can't help wondering how far it would throw a flight arrow :)
Del
Thanks Del! My plan is to get one like this done up and send to Arvin for him to test out. Heck I may just send him this one. I do have my eye on a very clean hickory stave that I may reserve that. This bow here has some minor splits out towards the tips on the belly I didn’t like although they are hardly noticeable I know they are there. They filled in nice but still. It would be very cool indeed to have a flight record bow. We shall see. He and I have been discussing this idea of flight testing for a bit. Thanks again.
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Fantastic bow Dave! How much of the reflex was glued in vs heated in?
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Great work Dave! For sure impressive reflex like many of your bows. Sure fast. Is that amount of reflex durable, how long? Just asking because I'm usually not capable to preserve that much reflex in a wood-only bow,...I dont even try anymore :) My conversion rate is low, I usually can only keep 20-30% of the glued in reflex, the more the less... :) The fulldraw pic is strange...do you tilt the bow in your hand to the side? Lower limb looks way shorter than the upper one with all the bend concentrated midlimbs.... I'd love to examine that true money shot.
cheeers
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Great work Dave! For sure impressive reflex like many of your bows. Sure fast. Is that amount of reflex durable, how long? Just asking because I'm usually not capable to preserve that much reflex in a wood-only bow,...I dont even try anymore :) My conversion rate is low, I usually can only keep 20-30% of the glued in reflex, the more the less... :) The fulldraw pic is strange...do you tilt the bow in your hand to the side? Lower limb looks way shorter than the upper one with all the bend concentrated midlimbs.... I'd love to examine that true money shot.
cheeers
Thanks so much Simk! Yes I was very impressed at how much reflex these bow maintained. Both bows were similar in length only difference is that the one with the handle laminated sections (give away bow trade bow) was only 1.3” at widest point while this one was around 1.4” wide. Both started as seasoned hickory staves that had a deep heat treatment bake. I decrowned the back of both to about 1/2” thickness thereabouts on limbs. This allowed me to keep more of the darker belly I suspect. It was a chance that I took wondering if it would be too weak in the end but it was pretty bang on. Good guess I suppose. The stave blanks prior to glue up looked pretty flimsy. I also kept my boo slats very thin. My worry was it overpowering the hickory. So going thin thin moved the neutral plane to a favourable spot in the limb I suspect. I tapered the boo like you would normally do thicker at the handle section and tapered out to the tips. Thickness at the tips were around just under a tenth of an inch. .090. The handle are was around .120-.130”. On these bows I did the glue up on the blank and then tillered it. I did a very basic floor tiller prior to decrown of back in prep for glue up. The glue I use isn’t anything special just the ea 40 smooth on. I do a 2:1 (2 parts A to 1part B) mix according to the mix labels on the can. I don’t find I need to hot box the glue up either. Don’t find it made any difference for me. I glued in 5” reflex on these ones and amazingly they kept 4-4.5”. I’m not sure how as I too have had issues with this maintaining that much reflex after glue ups. These two bows are a different animal for some reason. The only thing I can think of that I did little differently on these two was that I toasted the belly of boo strip. I noticed that as I did this it swelled up a little to the point where I needed to Re flatten them on the belly for glue up. My boo is also not from prepared 2” wide slats. Not sure if this has anything to do with it but I use large mosso poles that I get in 10 foot lengths. I prepare my own slats. It’s more work and I can’t see it being a thing that makes any difference but one wonders. Obviously taking into consideration the node placement along the limbs which you already know is I think important too.
As to the pics ya they are not great. I am canting the bow slightly it appears. The top limb is an inch longer but ya the bend in the pic looks weird I should try and get another one posted. My wife was in a hurry too so I took what I could get. As far as durability I sure hope so :). Time will tell I suppose. The one bow has aprox 200 shots thru it and the other has around 160. The narrower one at 27” and this one at 28”. As a point of interest the narrower one holds slightly more reflex for some reason. Both bow creep back to around 4-4.5” after unstringing for around 10-15mins. Hope this clarifies some things anyway. Thanks for Looking. Dave
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It looks fast as all get out just sittin still
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Ufff... nice bows all arround. Congratulations for such a fast, agresive and beautiful bow.
For sure, a video about the bamboo side dying would be fantastic.
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Thanks guys. Stix. Yes it’s a good shooter. Juan, I will do that and post it on this build with a short vid link. Stay tuned.
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Hey guys. I was asked about my boo strip prepare method so figured I’d post it here on this post as it applies to this build too. Basically what I do as can be seen in the video clip is lightly heat temper or treat the belly of the strip and very lightly heat the back a little too not so much to toast it like I do on the belly but enough to get steam escaping as can be seen. Too much and your boo strip will be too brittle and could find yourself is a situation where something explodes. Don’t ask how I know this! In the video you can see I’m moving back and forth over a radiant heat source. This is just what I’ve found works for me. You will get a smell similar to popcorn or slightly burnt popcorn when doing this. My wife hates it! Lol. You may also actually hear the steam coming out of the strip. In the pics here you can see the the belly side does swell a tiny bit so like I said before on this thread you’ll have to resurface the belly prior to glue up. The results I think are noticeable. Can’t say it’s just this one aspect that makes all the difference between these two bows and others I’ve done but a few things done and minor tweak’s combined I think added up to make the difference. Time will tell on the longevity of these bows have retained this much reflex being all wood laminates but one can be hopeful and it’s the little tweaks that sometimes make the difference. In the pics you can see that after heat treatment this little 23” test piece in the demonstration loses about 11grams of mass. From 165 grams to 154 grams. Water weight loss. You’ll also notice that the first pic shows the slight swell on the belly. As I mention in the video the lignins and pectins in the boo harden up much like sugars and starches do when heated. This was discovered to improve moe and overall strength of the boo. There is a great study that was done in china I believe that I referenced when doing my own testing for its application to bows. They were studying the benefits of heat treatment of bamboo for application in construction. Anyway enjoy the video and thanks for following along in my builds and hair brained ideas.
Short video…
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vxKkhpGcawgg7xXh7
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Sweet bow Dave
It would be so cool to get a bunch of us to the flats with Arvin.
I’m sure it would be a great learning experience for everyone involved.
I to have been the benefactor of help from Arvin.
I have a flight bow ready almost ready to go. Need a different string and a little finish work.
I just can’t get away in September I believe?
Sure would be a hoot
Bjrogg
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Sweet bow Dave
It would be so cool to get a bunch of us to the flats with Arvin.
I’m sure it would be a great learning experience for everyone involved.
I to have been the benefactor of help from Arvin.
I have a flight bow ready almost ready to go. Need a different string and a little finish work.
I just can’t get away in September I believe?
Sure would be a hoot
Bjrogg
Thanks Bj. Yes for sure. That would be a great time. We will have to do it one of these years. I might be able to swing it for next year! I’ll reach out to Arvin and see if we can plan for it and make it happen. He’s got me getting keen on the flight stuff and all the voodoo magic that goes with it. 😎.
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I was able get a better full draw pic uploaded. Hope this looks little better. Cheers
Dave.
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Nice bow!…and thanks for posting the video. Very interesting. I plan to heat treat my boo on my next boo-backed bow.
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Looks good Dave!! That’s a more of a contentious reflex but I think the most important thing is get the tips forward of the back of the handle as much as possible with out set. Looks like you achieved that really good! Excellent speed from that bow ! Yes that is a contender!
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Thanks for the video, it does a good job of explaining how to do it. The full draw profile of that bow is awesome! :OK
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Okay, I watched the video. Your doing that over the kitchen stove, in the house. I’m thinking my wife would tell me to buy a hot plate and get out of the house with that nonsense.
You got a good one Dave, I’d keep her if I were you.
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Okay, I watched the video. Your doing that over the kitchen stove, in the house. I’m thinking my wife would tell me to buy a hot plate and get out of the house with that nonsense.
You got a good one Dave, I’d keep her if I were you.
Ya she’s a good sport for sure. lol
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thanx for the pic Dave, of course that full draw looks spot on :)
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Fantastic bow Dave! How much of the reflex was glued in vs heated in?
Sorry just saw this question Brendan. I heat treated most of this reflex in minus about an inch give or take. I glued it up with about 5” or so. The heat treated bow blank had about 4” or so baked in off the form. Then added about an inch more on glue up once I got everything sorted with de crowning the back and such. It maintained about 4-4 1/2” of that. So in essence it’s a mild Perry reflex influenced bow but it’s mainly heat treated into reflex. That may be the difference to some degree as well. My heat treatment is quite deep compared to others I think, I could be wrong on that but based on some of response and questions I get I suspect this may also be the case. It would be considered by some extreme and on the edge of the limits of the wood. With the boo back it’s a great combo in the end. The heat treated hickory is very light in mass in comparison to some of the other good bows woods like Osage. This may go against conventional wisdom and we may be touching a sensitive area here but I’m willing to put it out there in the hopes that others will not be offended or slighted by what I say. We are all on this journey together and I’m still learning too. Anyway a long answer to a short question kidder but yes more baked in then Perry reflexed on glue up if that makes sense. Cheers. Dave.
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Following this very closely. Thanks for the detailed process Dave. Very helpful to me at this stage of my own BBH.
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Amazing bow. Just beautiful.
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What a beauty. Well done once again.
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Thanks guys! Well it was handle wrap day here and got this one done up with a wrap as well. Thanks for looking.
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What a day's work you have done...I'm thinking I like this one even more than the yew 2 piece. :OK Love the dye job on the boo... I just wish I could get hickory to work in our humidity. Thanks again for sharing.
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Did you get the handle three niches off the wall? That’s a beauty Dave!
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Beautiful job Dave. Nice leather handle wrap.
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Thanks gents!
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Did you get the handle three niches off the wall? That’s a beauty Dave!
Yes I did. It around 4” give or take.
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Might be a contender for the modern longbow class. Cool!
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Very impressive bow and craftmanship!
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Might be a contender for the modern longbow class. Cool!
Thanks Arvin! I’m hoping so. I’m going to make an identical bow to this one for you to test out for flight. This one has some unsightly splits in the handle and on the belly area at the tips that I didn’t like. They filled in nice and shouldn’t be a problem performance wise long term but just want to be sure. The bow blank I’ve got for the new build is better and same dimensions. I’ll keep you posted.
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Very impressive bow and craftmanship!
Thanks man!
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Looks great. Top notch work all around!
Mike
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Looks great. Top notch work all around!
Mike
Thanks mike!