Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Ippus on October 10, 2016, 09:27:56 pm
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So, I was in the craft store today, scouting for feathers and leather scraps and whatnot, and I saw that they had a roll of "artificial sinew" near the craft lacing. It was $16.99...
I'd be leery of using it to back a bow or anything, but have any of you ever used that for fletching? What do you think?
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It ties fletching great, and makes a subpar string but can do it in a pinch.
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Artificial sinew is nothing but waxed nylon..............it has its place . and it can be used in making arrows if used property...
DBar
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I use it for stitching leather and making necklaces. I prefer heavy duty UV resistant thread for wrapping arrows. I soak it 2x with superglue and its rock hard.
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i've used unwaxed nylon for fletching. Real sinew is better :D but I guess nylon works fine with glue.. bit uglier of course
You can find leg sinew for less than $17
And I guess a roll of silk looks a bit better than nylon, but is weaker. Maybe artificial sinew would look better...
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While we're on the subject, how's monofilament fishing line for fletching? Say about 8-lb test? Do you just wrap it tight and glue it?
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Mono wouldn't soak up the glue, it's basically plastic thread.
Braided line on the other hand works great and is at least as strong as real sinew. I haven't tried kevlar thread yet, but would imagine it would be a durable option as well.
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I use it for arrows, wrapping fletching and nock (bamboo self-nocks). It works just fine. also works well for stiching leather like osage outlaw says
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It's as good for wrapping fletching/nocks as any other thread, but of course it doesn't have the shrinking effects of real sinew.
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It will fray on arrow wraps. I have all kinds of ugly arrows proving that. I shoot a lot. Most wraps wont last 6 months before they un-wrap, un-stick and fray. Silk is my favorite wrap. It soaks up epoxy glue and never comes apart or frays.
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Mono wouldn't soak up the glue, it's basically plastic thread.
Braided line on the other hand works great and is at least as strong as real sinew. I haven't tried kevlar thread yet, but would imagine it would be a durable option as well.
I use Kevlar thread. You can't sand it, it just fuzzes up but you only need a few wraps. Don't try to break it with your hands :-[
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The artificial sinew actually can work very well. First, cut a piece about 10" long. Then begin splitting it into smaller strands until you have a piece not much wider than a line drawn with a pencil. It's pretty easy because artificial sinew is comprised of several of these smaller strands.
Start your wrap, making sure to wrap the sinew over top of itself once or twice, but do NOT do a lot of layers! A lump makes an uncomfortable day of shooting! Pull the thread as tight as you can get it, wrapping carefully so that each wrap lays tight against the next. When you get to the last of it, use your fingernail to smoosh it into the shaft as you rotate the arrow. The wax will hold all in place...for just a little while.
That little while is just long enough to reach over to pick up a small bottle of superglue. Dribble a little on the artificial sinew wrap and smooth it with your finger, wiping it all around the sinew. The superglue eats thru the wax and bonds the material to the shaft. Careful you do not use so much glue that it wicks up onto the feather. That turns it from a flexible feather to a blade slicing across the back of your bow grip hand.
I knocked out a couple hundred of these for a German Documentary film crew several years back.
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It will fray on arrow wraps. I have all kinds of ugly arrows proving that. I shoot a lot. Most wraps wont last 6 months before they un-wrap, un-stick and fray. Silk is my favorite wrap. It soaks up epoxy glue and never comes apart or frays.
epoxy sounds nasty, but I've never used it.
I have some, I think #100 silk thread, I can break it very easily with my hands..
I wouldn't like sinew as much for wrapping into the feathers because it's thick, hard to get it as thin as some thread. Unless it's backstrap sinew I guess..
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Sawdust. It's man glitter.
lol! Awesome.
Thanks, JW. That's really helpful... and it may be just because I'm getting started, but "a couple hundred" sounds like an awful lot of arrows.
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Sawdust. It's man glitter.
lol! Awesome.
Thanks, JW. That's really helpful... and it may be just because I'm getting started, but "a couple hundred" sounds like an awful lot of arrows.
It was a burning pain in the a...awww, you know what I mean.
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When I said " used properly" JW's description was right on. Thinning the strands is the way to go. the thinner the better......and don't use it on the point end of the arrow as Pearl said it will fray in no time.......the super glue actually melts the wax and does a good job..... I cut 5 minute epoxy with acetone and make a final coat with that for an armor finish especially on point wraps....
DBar
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I don't shoot as much as Pearl drums, or I loose an arrow before the art. sinew frays badly enough to warrant a replacement. it is really REALLY hard to get a thin enough piece to do the fletching wrap though, Ill admit that. I think Ill try some braided fishing line for the fletching wrap on my next few arrows. I have only used glue-on points, so I can't speak to the fraying on a point end, but I imagine it would get really nasty really quickly there.
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Polyester thread should be ok?..
Or linen? :p
What would be some good, strong silk that isn't too expensive?..
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Try some outdoor UV resistant thread. It is very strong and small diameter. Perfect for wrapping arrows. My local walmart used to carry it but they stopped. I just ordered a giant spool off ebay for $7. It will last me 20 years.
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Try some outdoor UV resistant thread. It is very strong and small diameter. Perfect for wrapping arrows. My local walmart used to carry it but they stopped. I just ordered a giant spool off ebay for $7. It will last me 20 years.
if it is polyester, maybe it could make bowstrings...?
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For that matter, why not just use single-strand b50 Dacron or fastflight or something? Or is that not cost-effective or something?
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The thread that I use is smaller diameter than bow string material.
Here is the thread that I use. I coat it 2x with superglue. This picture was taken before I applied the superglue. The arrow on the far left went through a rib, lung, and heart of a buck. The wrapping looked the same after the shot.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20CLINT-HP/New%20bow%20stuff/SDC15815.jpg)
Same thread on nock end of different arrows.
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/Outlawstaves/20160608_234404_zpseka4uluy.jpg)
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For that matter, why not just use single-strand b50 Dacron or fastflight or something? Or is that not cost-effective or something?
That is a rounder cross section material and will stand up a good bit more proud of the arrow shaft. It's gonna scratch shooting off knuckle and if shooting off shelf, it's gonna kick the shaft up a little bit as it passes. Thinner material like sinew, thinned down artificial sinew, or a single layer of sewing thread is much better.
I have also used sewing thread, but quickly learned to wipe multiple layers of wood glue or some such to smooth it out. Otherwise it can be a little scratchy, too.
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yeah... braided is better for wrapping stuff (and serving) in general, I think..
Woah that thread actually looks really nice osage outlaw. Maybe I'll get some ... ... interesting to see the stone points hafted with it too. nice shaft paint for visibility
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You mention superglue... How do you apply that without gluing yourself to everything?
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I put a few drops around the wrap and then take my finger and smooth it out while spinning the arrow. I wear a latex glove while doing this.
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got some loctite 480 on my fingers, hopefully acetone will dissolve it. should get latex gloves..
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I've put a zip loc bag or a plastic shopping bag over my finger to smooth the superglue. That worked just as well.
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Try some outdoor UV resistant thread. It is very strong and small diameter. Perfect for wrapping arrows. My local walmart used to carry it but they stopped. I just ordered a giant spool off ebay for $7. It will last me 20 years.
So the thread you use is not braided? "High Tenacity outdoor" UV resistant? 1000 yard?
May just bite the bullet..
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I think it's braided. Here is the big spool I just bought. I was getting small spools at walmart. The big spool is a much better value. It will last me for years and years.
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/Outlawstaves/Screenshot_2016-10-15-12-38-12_zpswklhbo8e.png) (http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Outlawstaves/media/Screenshot_2016-10-15-12-38-12_zpswklhbo8e.png.html)
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thank you!! Just getting some of the same stuff...
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Just saw in Jaap and Kay Koppedrayer's booklet Making Bamboo Arrows, it's mentioned that one of the easiest stuff to use to wrap the ends of feathers into the shaft is the minimally waxed artificial sinew that can be separated into strands. A small section of quill/spine of the feather is scraped and left nice and flat to wrap over.
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Yeah, certain threads with superglue etc will make a nicer looking end result or maybe last longer, but the artificial sinew is super easy to use as the wax helps hold everything in place while you wrap and glue it. Of course none of it is as good as real sinew.
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The stuff is tuff. I got a buddy, his dad used to fight chickens back in the day. They used it to tie on the blades on the spurs. They wouldnt have used it if it wasnt tough.
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I have some 10 year old arrows with artificial sinew wraps. I sealed the wraps with super glue. The wraps are still holding up but are frayed. The wax on the artificial sinew accepts the super glue right off but later the super glue disappears and the artificial sinew frays again.
Art Butner taught me about silk thread and super glue. He would make the wrap, seal it with super glue, sand it with extra fine sandpaper(emery cloth) add more glue and sand it smooth. If done like this the wrap comes out like a solid band that will not fray and it is a very strong wrap.
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I've tried so many things, I shoot a lot and my arrows get badly abused!
I've never had good luck with artificial sinew on arrows that I shoot a lot.
No matter what glue is used they always seem to fray eventually.
Now I use silk, I use 3 strands about 4' long. 3 strands just cuz it's quicker than wrapping a single thread. I use watered down tB3 and paint it on all the thread. 1 coat is enough, but 2 is better, the silk soaks it right up, is water proof, and I haven't had one fray yet. Super glue works just as good, I just hate the nostril burning affects
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I've tried so many things, I shoot a lot and my arrows get badly abused!
I've never had good luck with artificial sinew on arrows that I shoot a lot.
No matter what glue is used they always seem to fray eventually.
Now I use silk, I use 3 strands about 4' long. 3 strands just cuz it's quicker than wrapping a single thread. I use watered down tB3 and paint it on all the thread. 1 coat is enough, but 2 is better, the silk soaks it right up, is water proof, and I haven't had one fray yet. Super glue works just as good, I just hate the nostril burning affects
What size of silk thread do you use?
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I've tried so many things, I shoot a lot and my arrows get badly abused!
I've never had good luck with artificial sinew on arrows that I shoot a lot.
No matter what glue is used they always seem to fray eventually.
Now I use silk, I use 3 strands about 4' long. 3 strands just cuz it's quicker than wrapping a single thread. I use watered down tB3 and paint it on all the thread. 1 coat is enough, but 2 is better, the silk soaks it right up, is water proof, and I haven't had one fray yet. Super glue works just as good, I just hate the nostril burning affects
Your not supposed to huff the stuff! Here in America we have these awesome laws that say you must be at least 18 to buy superglue, and that stops it from being abused.
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Dental floss works well also. Just not much choice of colors.
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I'm not sure what size silk I use, I can check. I just buy it from a fabric store. It's pretty thin, that why I triple it up. I use super glue called hot stuff and it's super potent