Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bruce M on March 17, 2024, 05:31:07 pm
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Working on this bow slowly working the tiller trying to keep uniform thickness from side to side of the bow, finally got it to a short brace and the string heavily favors one side going through the handle, about 1/2" off center as the limbs curve to that side when at brace.
The limbs look dead straight when not strung with just very little propeller twist on one limb.
I've been scraping off from the side that the string is leaning thinking that that is the strong side of the limb and releasing tension would result in the string moving towards the center but I have not seen any progress in that so far.
Before I go anymore and destroy what I thought was turning out to be my best tiller to date I'd like to ask the braintrust here on what you think I should do to get it back to center, or close anyway.
It's hickory and 66". I have access to steam and dry heat
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Someone else will be positive about this but I think it’s just the opposite.. in that the weak side is where the string will pull to. Don’t go scraping the other side on what I say but I think that’s right.
Definitely stop scraping on the side you’ve been scraping till someone with more knowledge than me tells you differently. If you think about it the weakest side will bend more and allow the string to move that way.
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Yes Muskey, you are correct. By removing wood from the weak side he is tillering the bow to bend more to that side, making the string more offset.
Bruce your bow still looks very good. Some people intentionally tiller their bows to bias the side that the arrow passes on. If the bow shoots well from its current alignment, keep it as it is(it probably will be okay, if you are right handed). If not your options are: try stiffer arrows(or weaker arrows if you shoot left handed); cut your nocks on the weak side a little deeper to move the string to be more centered(only if you still have enough width at the tips); or tiller the strong side, until the string moves back to the centre(you will lose some draw weight).
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I have pulled both limbs to line with the riser with dry heat on the belly, and a small come along. Riser is locked in a vice.
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Do I have the weak side and strong side backwards. To my thinking the strong side is the side that the string is running along and the weak side is the side that I want to move the sting towards.
For a little more pertinent info the bow is centered(equal limbs) so I can make the top or the bottom whatever I want. The brace height is also equal from limb to limb so no positive or neg tiller, I shoot three under off the knuckle with a glove.
here it is at rest;
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Shoot it. Less worries about arrow spine like shooting a center shot bow.
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Looking at your strung bow left side is the weak side. The side your string is favoring is the weak side. A lot of bows will favor one side or the other.. Ryan Gill decides what limb will be his top limb off the side the string favors.
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Bruce, Think about string corrections, like tillering a bow, except sideways. The side you remove wood on is the direction the limb and the string will bend towards. If you remove wood you are weakening that side.
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There is a sticky thread on limb twist in this section. Every time I deal with the issue I refer to it because it is so easy confuse the solution. But like Pat said, shoot it and don’t stress it too much.
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Unless it is really off in limb thickness on one side I would just tweak the limbs over with dry heat,never had much luck thinning one side to make it move, just me I guess. ??? :-\ some want it favoring the arrow side but for me I want it right down the center, if it favors the arrow side I get a lot more arm slap so for mine I want them down the center. :)
Pappy
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I am with pappy, heat correct it, you can move the offending tip (what I would do first) or bend the handle.
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Thanks all for the replies and advice on which way to go.
I did do some scraping on the side of both limbs in the proper direction(20 scrapes on each limb). If it moved it was very little that I could hardly notice, all I am doing to it at this point is loosing weight.
I decided to put it up on the "works in progress" shelf to be resumed at a later date after I let it sit in my head for a while.
I pulled a different bow off of that same shelf that was left to let me to think on, so I'm going to flip the tips on that bow and probably get back to this one after that.
I will just do as others say and shoot it to see how it shoots but I think I am going to get a good amount of wrist slap. Bending the tips just seems to me that I'd be bending the tips out of center, where they are now, to off center tips in order to achieve a correction that, to me anyway, should be fixable with proper stock removal.
At this point I'm at 48# @28" and falling below my desired hunting weight so I think I'm going to continue on the stock removal evenly until I get the desired tiller and string path and to heck with the weight, I'll just make it a plinker bow but hopefully will learn how to do these corrections for the next one.
Thanks again all of you, great place for info and direction and I appreciate all of your input.
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You can bend it in the handle area. Steam it or use a heat gun. I prefer steam myself because I have a tendency to overheat with a heat gun. 2 -3 ft piece of downspout slid over the bow centered on the handle area. Steam it about a hour then bend it. Get everything ready to clamp into your jig before hand then clamp it.
Here is a picture from the traditional bowyers bible. Hopefully you can see it and read the text
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This is how I make most of my bows, string down the left past the middle line. I find that they shoot a variety of arrows just great. I see no problems.
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I have this posted on my tillering tree... it might help. It is what I use when I don't want to heat /steam correct a bow...which is not very often these days... :)
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This is a good thread and will help someone out. Good info here. I’ve referred to the sticky mentioned myself a number of times. On another note…prevention. there are some things that can be done earlier on in tiller process to prevent the issue from even happening. I know this isn’t going to help those who are already in the situation where the need to correct an issue but figured I’d mention it here anyway as it’s related. Early on in my bow builds I now take careful measurements or use my finger calipers depending on the type of bow build I’m doing to make certain the limbs are even thickness on both sides and that the string is running centered on the handle grip area. I do this visual and physical inspection using calipers or fingers as I floor tiller to get to low brace. I normally don’t add recurves this early on. I find that taking the time early on to do careful bulk wood removal to get to low brace is key to having a better outcome when stringing the bow for the first time. I rarely use the scraping strong side method to correct string alignment or tip alignment or twist this early on. I do as pappy mentioned above and heat it with dry heat to make those small corrections. The minor heat corrections after the fact seem to resolve most of these type issues for me. For heat treated white woods this is not an option to correct after the fact. It is what it is after heat treatment. One of the downsides to heat treatment of white woods. To resolve issues of alignment and tip twist you are left with the sanding or scraping on strong side.
When scraping for weight reduction on a low braced flat bow for example taking curls evenly with a sharp scraper tool helps. I use my pencil and my bent middle finger running along the back to draw a parallel marks on the belly to do bulk belly removal at a slight angle right to the line following as close a possible. Doing this one thing alone will prevent many alignment issues getting to low brace while floor tillering. The tiller stick is a great tool too as it can show a strong and weak side of belly when bending limbs with long string. I’ve seen that as well looking down my limbs while bent to pick up on this early and take necessary measures. It’s an often overlooked and underestimated part of the bow build process. At low brace careful attention to maintain good even scrapes from then on is key to maintaining your string and tip alignment. If I notice it’s veering off to one side I’ll concentrate my scrapes a little more on the strong side to stay ahead of it early. I constantly look down the limbs while strung to stay on top of alignment all the way through. I also like to leave mine strung for several hours to let the bow “settle”. Exercise of limbs after each session of scrapes is necessary practice to see what effect that wood removal has made. With my first few bows I would make this mistake and often take uneven scrapes that were not caught in time and got away from me because I didn’t exercise the limbs after removal. Very important to always check what effect your removal makes each time you scrape. Uneven removal can be compounded in a way and missed if this step is not done. Again early detection is your friend. Scrape session exercise, scrape session and exercise and repeat!
I personally like having my string and tips aligned in center of bow. If I end up with a good shooter that leans a bit to the left shelf side I have to fight my ocd to not move it over with heat. I sometimes succumb to this and tweek it over to no benefit at all other then my ocd brain needing it! I’ve been able to just leave a few off a bit but it admittedly bothers me. It’s a me problem I know. I have a bow that I have unfinished because it shoots so good being a little left of center and I know if I start messing with it I could damage it or cause it to potentially hurt performance and Or shoot ability. Anyway I guess it’s a good problem to have and I just needed to take a break from it and resist the urge to mess with it. Sometimes it’s best to do that as already was mentioned. To boil all this rambling down… prevention is obviously better and achieved if good floor tiller belly wood removal methods are used early on. Hope this helps. Sorry for rambling. 😁
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An update with successs.
I decided to take a shot at flipping the tips and trying to center the string, I had good results at that point but not fully. I let it sit for a while and then locked down the tips in a form and pulled the handle to just past the point of center and heat treated the whole bow with dry heat.
The result was perfect and though I haven't pulled the bow to full draw yet I have gone half draw and I am getting good weights (31# @ 19" draw) so I'll probably end up close to my low 50's target weight if I don't get over zealous with the continuing tillering.
Thank you all for the suggestions to rectify this issue, this forum and the people that make it up are a treasure.
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I’m thinking that’s what I would’ve done.
Looking good Bruce.
If you need to take any more off I think the first couple inches out of your fades could be a little stiff yet. Especially the right one.
Don’t have it in front of me on a tree, but it looks a little thicker and seems a little stiff in braced picture.
If you do take some be careful. You don’t want to get it bending to much there. Just so it thinks about moving
Bjrogg
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Looking good Bruce. Looks like you’re really close if not there already.
Good looking bow.
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Glad it's working out, looks nice so far. :)
Pappy
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I know this input won't really help with fixing it but will definitely help with this problem in the future, but I personally like to just make the handle section wider because if you don't have both sides of each limb tillered to the same thickness it will always warp over to the side like that and even if you heatcorrect it it will eventually bend back. But to be honest at the same time your bow is pretty long and I'd say it would have probably been safe to just leave it with the bend in it. Like Pat B said earlier it just helps make the bow a little more center shot.
On shorter bows that are meant to bend through the handle it matters a lot more because then the bow would be putting tension on one side of the limb and then it is putting tension onto wood that is more vulnerable to breaking under tension.